From cbmvax!uunet!CUVMA.BITNET!LOJBAN Sat Dec 7 08:58:52 1991 Return-Path: Date: Sat Dec 7 08:58:52 1991 Message-Id: <9112071328.AA01859@relay1.UU.NET> Reply-To: Logical Language Group Sender: Lojban list From: Logical Language Group Subject: Re: place structure of lujvo X-To: infmx!godzilla!cortesi%UUNET.UU.NET@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU X-Cc: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: John Cowan , Eric Raymond , Eric Tiedemann Status: RO The answer, of course, is to learn the language like a 4-year old, and 'invent your own rules' internally, try them out and see if others understand you ir c correct you (and if they seem to match what others do). The first approximation is to unpack it to a tanru, and indeed, that is useful in that it gives you a suggested metaphor in English translation that often confirms your interpretation "sudri'a" = "dry-cause". But as a tanru has only the places of its final term, as Nick says, the result is excessively constrained. In a tanru, you can specify the places of the non-final tanru components using be/bei. You cannot in lujvo. If you ONLY use tanru -like place structures, then I think you still have some problems, by the way. "rinka" is "causes" in a verbal interpretation and "causer" in a nounal interpreation. Thus sudri'a could be "dryishly-causes" or "is-a-dry-causer" (as opposed to one that is all wet? %^) just with the tanru interpretation. Dave sent me an earlier message on this subject, and posted this before receiving my non-list reply, which I prepared off-line. I will post that reply to the list instead of to Dave - it quotes some relevant text from Nick and Dave's discussion. But please ignore the fact that I phrased the posing for Dave with the intent that he edit it and repost it after merging with other parts of the discussion. lojbab