Message-Id: <9201260501.AA19783@relay1.UU.NET>
Date:         Sun, 26 Jan 1992 15:59:31 +1100
Reply-To: cbmvax!uunet!cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu!nsn
Sender: Lojban list <cbmvax!uunet!cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu!LOJBAN>
From: cbmvax!uunet!cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu!nsn
Subject:      subjunctive (su)
To: John Cowan <cowan@snark.thyrsus.com>
Status: RO

Actually, if anyone has been reading any of my recent translations, they
would have noticed that I translate a phrase of the type

>Seems okay to me.

Not quite. {ka'e} really means {.e'a} here (rebarbitant pedantry in English,
but valid in Lojban). In fact, Dr Don Broadribb, who has been through the
Esp brochure, criticised Loglan in 1960 in an AL mag, pointing out that there
was nothing unbiased about using logic and using {selma'o} (JCB responded
with the answer which has since become standard), and as an example of the
language's selma'o arbitrariness gave the fact that "should" in in UI, and not
in CAhA (mutatis mutandis). I've made the mistake too, but unless we interpret
{kakne} very liberally, this should be {.e'apei lo pilno cu cpedu lenu na go'a}
or {xu curmi lenu lo pilno cu cpedu lenu na go'a} or {xu lo pilno cu zifre
lenu cpedu lenu na go'a}. (Note that, if you uncleft {curmi} and {zifre},
they end up being the same word. This is why not everything can be unclefted.
I trust Messrs Cowan and Lechevalier will soon report on their gi'uste
adventures?

>>>     Were I stronger, I would have lifted it myself.
>>   ganai mi tsamau da'i gi mipu pamei .ia lafti
>The "pamei lafti" tanru looks very prone to misinterpretation, and in a
>situation like this I'd prefer the clause model:
>lenu mi tsamau da'i cu nibli (/rinka?/) lenu mi ka'e lafti

I'd say {mi joinai lo drata} (or, if you must, {mi si'unai lafti}

>build a lujvo meaning "enable".  Uuhh, how 'bout "ka'enri'a": x1 enables x2
>to do/be x3 ....

>lenu mi tsamau da'i cu ka'enri'a mi lenu [mi] lafti

>I dunno how good that lujvo is, and it's got cleft places, and the whole
>way or looking at it is English, but there's an idea.


Well, in my book it's THE place structure, given that

xyxipa rinka xyxire
xyxici kakne xyxivo (clefted for obvious semantic reasons)

xyxipa noi fasnu cu rinka lenu xyxici kakne xyxivo noi fasnu

xyxipa ka'enria xyxici xyxivo

which is what you've got.

*pumps fist in air*

Nick.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Nick Nicholas, Melbourne Uni, Australia.  nsn@{munagin.ee|mullauna.cs}.mu.oz.au
"Despite millions of dollars of research, death continues to be this nation's
number one killer"      - Henry Gibson, Kentucky Fried Movie
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