Message-Id: <9201291638.AA10692@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>
Date:         Tue, 28 Jan 1992 11:41:27 GMT
Reply-To: cbmvax!uunet!cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu!C.J.Fine
Sender: Lojban list <cbmvax!uunet!cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu!LOJBAN>
From: CJ FINE <cbmvax!uunet!cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu!C.J.Fine>
Subject:      A text by Ralph Roughton
To: John Cowan <cowan@snark.thyrsus.com>
Status: RO

Here is a translation I did last week. I copied the original down from a
copy somebody had stuck up on a wall in a room I was in, so I have no
idea of its provenance.

There follows:

1. Lojban
2. Annotated Translation
3. English Original


di'e te fanva le pemci befila ralf rautn beime'elu

do jundi je'upei mi
li'u
.itu'e

ni'o
mi cpedu da'i lenu ko tinju'i mi
.ijebo do co'a cusku ledo selti'i
.inaja do na'e gasnu .uu lemi selcpe

.i mi cpedu da'i lenu ko tinju'i mi
.ijebo do co'a cusku lo krinu belenu lemi selci'o cu xlali mi
.inaja do to'e kurji loba'emi selci'o

.i mi cpedu da'i lenu ko tinju'i mi
.ijebo do jivyci'o leza'i do bilga co rinka lemu'e lemi nabmi co'i raktu
.inaja do fliselfu .uepeinai mi

.i ko tinju'i .e'ori'e
.i piroleimi selcpe cu nu ko tinju'i gi'enai tavla gi'enai gasnu gi'e tirna
 .e'ocai

.i lei selti'i cu nalkargu .isu'anai li piremu jdima lonu danfu falepe'a
 seldunku rirme'i po'a pelo ta'urkarni

.i mi ka'e kurji .iari'e mi .i mi na'e ckaji loka nalkakne
.i ja'a go'i la'a loka no'e pacna .i'a .a loka no'e ranji .i'a
.iku'i no lo romei ka nalkakne

.i lenu do gasnu da'i sesi'umi dapoi mi kakne je nitcu lenu ba'emi gasnu ke'a
 cu zenba leni mi terpa je nalbanzu

.i ku'i ca'olemu'e do selbanzu lenu fatci faleza'i mi cinmo lemi se cinmo kei
 .u lonu ri to'e logji keikei .ua mi co'i troci lenu do tugni kei gi'e co'a
 troci lenu mi jimpe lei rinka belo nalrlogji selci'o
.i fila'edi'u ge frili falenu zo'e co'u nabmi gi na nitcu fami lo selstidi

.i lei nalrlogji selci'o cu binxo le se jimpe lemu'e se jimpe falo rinka bevo'a

.i pe'udoido ko tinju'i gi'e tirne mi .i do djica ba'a lenu tavla
.inaja ko denpa ca'o so'u mentu .ije .ai mi tinju'i do


di'e te fanva le pemci befila ralf rautn beime'elu

do jundi je'upei mi
li'u
.itu'e

The following is-a-translation-of the poem by-the-named Ralph Roughton
and-named "you attend true-how? me"

ni'o
mi cpedu da'i lenu ko tinju'i mi
.ijebo do co'a cusku ledo selti'i
.inaja do na'e gasnu .uu lemi selcpe

{I request (suppose) the-event you-(make-it-so) hear-attend me
and you begin express the-you suggestion}
then you other-than do (sorrow) the-me request

.i mi cpedu da'i lenu ko tinju'i mi
.ijebo do co'a cusku lo krinu belenu lemi selci'o cu xlali mi
.inaja do to'e kurji loba'emi selci'o

{I request (suppose) the-event you-(make-it-so) hear-attend me
and you begin express the reason for-the-event the-me feeling is-bad-for me}
then you reverse-of care-for the (emphasis)-MY feeling

.i mi cpedu da'i lenu ko tinju'i mi
.ijebo do jivyci'o leza'i do bilga co rinka lemu'e lemi nabmi co'i raktu
.inaja do fliselfu .uepeinai mi

{I request (suppose) the event you-(make-it-so) hear-attend me
and you opine-feel the-state you are-obliged which-is cause the-achievment
the-me problem cease trouble}
then you fail-serve (surprise-?-not) me

.i ko tinju'i .e'ori'e
.i piroleimi selcpe cu nu ko tinju'i gi'enai tavla gi'enai gasnu gi'e tirna
        .e'ocai

you-(make-it-so) hear-attend (request-emotional-release)
point-all-the-me request is an-event you hear-attend and-not talk
and-not do and hear (intense request)

.i lei selti'i cu nalkargu .isu'anai li piremu jdima lonu danfu
falepe'a seldunku rirme'i po'a pelo ta'urkarni

the-mass suggestions are non-costly in-particular .25 is-the-price-of
the-event answer by-the-figurative {anguish parent-sister}
associated-with-the city-journal

.i mi ka'e kurji .iari'e mi .i mi na'e ckaji loka nalkakne
.i ja'a go'i la'a loka no'e pacna .i'a .a loka no'e ranji .i'a
.iku'i no lo romei ka nalkakne

I innately-can take-care-of (believe-emotional-release) me.
I non-characterised by the-quality non-able. (on-the-contrary) that
[i.e. I am characterised] probably the-quality neutral hope (I accept)
or the-quality neutral continue (I accept). In-contrast zero-of the
all-some quality-of non-able.

.i lenu do gasnu da'i sesi'umi dapoi mi kakne je nitcu lenu ba'emi
gasnu ke'a cu zenba leni mi terpa je nalbanzu

{the-event you do (suppose) to-help-me something-which I can and
need the-event (emphasis) I do it} increases the-quantity I fear
and non-suffice

.i ku'i ca'olemu'e do selbanzu lenu fatci faleza'i mi cinmo lemi
se cinmo kei .u lonu ri to'e logji keikei .ua mi co'i troci lenu
do tugni kei gi'e co'a troci lenu mi jimpe lei rinka belo nalrlogji selci'o
.i fila'edi'u ge frili falenu zo'e co'u nabmi gi na nitcu fami lo selstidi

in-contrast in-completion-of-the-achievement you are-sufficed-by
the-event is-a-fact {[the-state I feel the-me feeling] whether-or-not
it [the-me-feeling] is reverse-logical} (discovery) I {cease try
the-event you agree} and begin try the event I understand the causes
for-the non-logical feeling in-condition-the-referent-of-the-last-sentence
both is-easy the-event something completingly is-a-problem and not
need I the-suggestion

.i lei nalrlogji selci'o cu binxo le se jimpe lemu'e se jimpe falo
rinka bevo'a

the non-logical feelings become the understood-thing
in-condition-the-achievement is understood the cause for x1

.i pe'udoido ko tinju'i gi'e tirne mi .i do djica ba'a lenu tavla
.inaja ko denpa ca'o so'u mentu .ije .ai mi tinju'i do

please O you you-(make-it-so) hear-attend and hear me. You desire
(I-expect) the-event talk. If-so-then you-(make-it-so) wait through
a-few minutes. And (intention) I hear-attend you.


Are You Really Listening to Me?
                                        Ralph Roughton

When I ask you to listen to me
        and you start giving advice,
        you have not done what I asked.

When I ask you to listen to me
        and you begin to tell me why I shouldn't fell that way,
        you are treading on my feelings.

When I ask you to listen to me
        and you feel you have to do something to solve my problems,
        you have failed me, strange as that may seem.

LISTEN! All I asked was that you listen, not talk or do - just HEAR ME.

Advice is cheap: 25p will get you an Agony Aunt in the local paper.

And I can DO for myself: I'm not helpless.
        Maybe discouraged and faltering, but not helpless.

When you do something for me that I can and need to do for myself,
        you contribute to my fear and inadequacy.

But, when you accept as a simple fact that I do feel what I feel,
        no matter how irrational, then I quit trying to convince you and
        can get about the business of understanding what's behind the
        irrational feeling.
        And when that's clear, the answers are obvious and I don't need advice.

Irrational feelings make sense when we understand what's behind them.

So please listen and just hear me. And if you want to talk,
        wait a minute for your turn, and I'll listen to you.


                        Kolin
                                        c.j.fine@bradford.ac.uk