From cbmvax!uunet!cuvma.bitnet!LOJBAN Mon Feb 3 21:26:12 1992 Return-Path: Received: by snark.thyrsus.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.21.1 #21.19) id ; Mon, 3 Feb 92 21:26 EST Received: by cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com (5.57/UUCP-Project/Commodore 2/8/91) id AA28588; Mon, 3 Feb 92 20:58:31 EST Received: from rutgers.edu by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA12657; Mon, 3 Feb 92 20:50:15 -0500 Received: from cbmvax.UUCP by rutgers.edu (5.59/SMI4.0/RU1.4/3.08) with UUCP id AA04050; Mon, 3 Feb 92 19:49:27 EST Received: by cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com (5.57/UUCP-Project/Commodore 2/8/91) id AA22359; Mon, 3 Feb 92 19:40:26 EST Received: from CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU (via uunet.UU.NET) by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA19362; Mon, 3 Feb 92 18:53:27 -0500 Message-Id: <9202032353.AA19362@relay2.UU.NET> Received: from CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU by CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU (IBM VM SMTP R1.2.1) with BSMTP id 8805; Mon, 03 Feb 92 18:52:04 EST Received: by CUVMB (Mailer R2.07) id 3023; Mon, 03 Feb 92 18:51:30 EST Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1992 20:09:00 GMT Reply-To: cbmvax!uunet!cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu!jbdp Sender: Lojban list From: Julian Pardoe Subject: "mz"; buffer vowels X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: John Cowan Status: RO (Just to show that I am following what's going on even if I'm not contributing much.) > ... to require the name "*djeimz." to be changed, since "mz" is > not a permissible medial. What did little "mz" do to anybody to deserve this fate? (And how come "ns" didn't do it too?) > I just don't buy this concept of Lojban as a CV only language. Me neither! The argument sounds somewhat bogus to me. I can't quite put my finger on what's wrong. I suppose a Japanese or Polynesian speaker of Lojban might tend to a fully buffered dialect (except fopr nasal plus stop), so in that sense it corresponds to a linguistic ``reality''. However, it seems a pretty surface phenomenon, one of realization. Underneath, especially when looking at word structures, the importance of the "CCV" pattern seems to be fairly basic. I'm a bit worried about how I'd cope with buffer vowels in practice. (And like many English English speakers I'm not too good with "r"s so I'm going to need one if I'm going to cope with words like {gugdrne- tiopia} -- or is {gugdyrnetiopia} a valid realization?) I don't think [I] would be available to me. Certainly, when I speak Esperanto I use an [i] different to the one I use in English and it encroaches on [I]'s space rather. In my Esperanto (and presumably Lojban) accent there seems to be no room for [I] between [i] and [@]. On the other hand [y] seems too prominent to be a buffer vowel. PS: London Lojbanists, how about arranging a meeting some time! -- julian --