From cbmvax!uunet!cuvma.bitnet!LOJBAN Fri Feb 7 09:09:53 1992 Return-Path: Received: by snark.thyrsus.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.21.1 #21.19) id ; Fri, 7 Feb 92 09:09 EST Received: by cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com (5.57/UUCP-Project/Commodore 2/8/91) id AA18747; Fri, 7 Feb 92 09:06:20 EST Received: from rutgers.edu by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA27028; Fri, 7 Feb 92 07:30:14 -0500 Received: from cbmvax.UUCP by rutgers.edu (5.59/SMI4.0/RU1.4/3.08) with UUCP id AA28816; Fri, 7 Feb 92 07:11:30 EST Received: by cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com (5.57/UUCP-Project/Commodore 2/8/91) id AA06293; Fri, 7 Feb 92 06:15:31 EST Received: from CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU (via uunet.UU.NET) by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA17563; Fri, 7 Feb 92 05:55:06 -0500 Message-Id: <9202071055.AA17563@relay1.UU.NET> Received: from CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU by CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU (IBM VM SMTP R1.2.1) with BSMTP id 5288; Fri, 07 Feb 92 05:54:00 EST Received: by CUVMB (Mailer R2.07) id 3020; Fri, 07 Feb 92 05:53:36 EST Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1992 10:48:30 GMT Reply-To: Ivan A Derzhanski Sender: Lojban list From: Ivan A Derzhanski Subject: states/provinces/counties X-To: lojbab@GREBYN.COM To: John Cowan In-Reply-To: Logical Language Group's message of Thu, 6 Feb 1992 17:48:04 -0500 <2364.9202062255@cogsci.ed.ac.uk Status: RO la lojbab. cusku di'e >For Lojban, all names MUST be framed within Lojban morphology, and the issue > must at least be considered whether to preserve sound or to preserve > visual reference. In general, the decision has been to preserve sound. > > Thus Nova Scotia would Lojbanize as "la novaskocias." and the US, if not > "la mergu'e", as "la .iuNAItedsteits." Or {la .iu.es.}, which is also readily understood. > Lojban would not preserve "York" as "york", because the diphthong "yo" has > no defined pronunciation. So we end up with {la .iork.} and {la niu.iork.}. You have my emphatic vote against translating names or parts of names. That NY is called Nueva York in Spanish means that a Spanish speaker will recognise {la cnino.iork} (or whatever) as NY. But it won't mean anything to a Russian or Bulgarian lojbani, unless he knows English and is aware that "new" means `{cnino}'. He will expect {la niu.iork.} There are other problems, of course. Many places have more than one "native" name. Would you make a cmene for Belgium from her French or her Flemish name? (Just an example.) ---- --- -- - Long Live the Rose and the Heather! - -- --- ---- Ivan A Derzhanski (iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk; iad@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu) * Centre for Cognitive Science, 2 Buccleuch Place, Edinburgh EH8 9LW, UK * Cowan House, Pollock Halls, 18 Holyrood Park Road, Edinburgh EH16 5BD, UK