Return-Path: Received: by snark.thyrsus.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.21.1 #21.19) id ; Mon, 10 Feb 92 16:25 EST Received: by cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com (5.57/UUCP-Project/Commodore 2/8/91) id AA08870; Mon, 10 Feb 92 14:45:26 EST Received: from cunixf.cc.columbia.edu by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA14681; Mon, 10 Feb 92 13:56:00 -0500 Received: from cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu by cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (5.59/FCB) id AA11628; Mon, 10 Feb 92 13:56:01 EST Message-Id: <9202101856.AA11628@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> Received: from CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU by CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU (IBM VM SMTP R1.2.1) with BSMTP id 9830; Mon, 10 Feb 92 13:54:11 EST Received: by CUVMB (Mailer R2.07) id 7308; Mon, 10 Feb 92 13:53:14 EST Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1992 18:42:39 +0000 Reply-To: And Rosta Sender: Lojban list From: And Rosta Subject: Re: proposed extension to grammar To: John Cowan , Eric Raymond , Eric Tiedemann In-Reply-To: (Your message of Fri, 07 Feb 92 15:49:32 GMT.) <9916.9202072330@ucl.ac.uk Status: RO X-From-Space-Date: Mon Feb 10 16:25:39 1992 X-From-Space-Address: cbmvax!uunet!CUVMA.BITNET!LOJBAN One of Colin's postings (quoted below) surprised me. It combines cmene with restrictive modification. If this is permitted, then a cmene is a selbri meaning "x1 is called [cmene]". This sense can then be restrictively modified. I had hitherto assumed that cmene are direct labels for individuals - that cmene have referents but no senses. Another way of putting it: the extension of a cmene is a single individual (or a named set), but not a set of individuals each separately denoted by the cmene, although a cmene may have several alternative extensions. So, what is the case? Do cmene have senses? Does Lojban restrictive modification mean something different from English restrictive mod.? Colin wrote: > I would like to suggest that relative phrases/clauses be permitted > before the selbri of a description or name: > le pemi zdani > le po'u la kreml. dinju > le noi lemi rirme'i cu xabju ke'a [ko'u] zdani. > The main use I have thought of for this is epithets and restrictions > before names: > > na'a pe la bakin,mcr la xodjez "The Buckinghamshire Hodges" > na'a noi misno la ringos. star. "The famous Ringo Starr" > na'a poi nolraitru la xusEIn. "King Hussein" > > na'a nolraitru la xusEIn. "The Hussein who kings" > na'a kicmu la uotsn. > na'a misno la ringos. star. (restrictive: as opposed to all the > non-famous ones) > na'a nolraitru bero natmrbelgi'e la boduan "King of the Belgians > Baudouin" --- And.