Return-Path: Received: by snark.thyrsus.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.21.1 #21.19) id ; Fri, 28 Feb 92 11:58 EST Received: by cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com (5.57/UUCP-Project/Commodore 2/8/91) id AA07348; Fri, 28 Feb 92 07:08:48 EST Received: from cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (via [128.59.40.130]) by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA25138; Fri, 28 Feb 92 06:40:35 -0500 Received: from cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu by cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (5.59/FCB) id AA11826; Thu, 27 Feb 92 21:47:33 EST Message-Id: <9202280247.AA11826@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> Received: from CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU by CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU (IBM VM SMTP R1.2.1) with BSMTP id 6426; Thu, 27 Feb 92 21:45:43 EST Received: by CUVMB (Mailer R2.07) id 7534; Thu, 27 Feb 92 21:44:45 EST Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1992 19:00:57 GMT Reply-To: CJ FINE Sender: Lojban list From: CJ FINE Subject: Re: Wallops #7 X-To: nsn@MULLIAN.EE.MU.OZ.au X-Cc: Lojban list To: John Cowan , Eric Raymond , Eric Tiedemann In-Reply-To: ; from "nsn@AU.OZ.MU.EE.MULLIAN" at Feb 23, 92 9:30 pm Status: RO X-From-Space-Date: Fri Feb 28 11:58:54 1992 X-From-Space-Address: cbmvax!uunet!CUVMA.BITNET!LOJBAN I don't know how far it's me and how far it's you, but I was able to make sense of most of this without consulting the translation, or my gi'uste. Comments herewith. > la xar. lu .i ko pleji ke'u mu'i lemu'e mi capu grebei do li'u "mu'i"? With purpose? I would prefer "ki'u" > la xar. lu .ixu.ianai su'o remna na ponse su'o fepni li'u "fepni" - I would be inclined to use "sicni" throughout. > la men. lu .i.aiku'i mi darxi do lemi grana gi'eja'ebo fedgau ledo besyvau li'u "fedgau ledo besyvau" - what's wrong with "porpi ledo stedu"? Or "sedbo'u" if you want to be a little more specific. > la xer. lu .i zau la zeus. mi.ei se sidju.uuse'i .ijo mi caba pleji ji'a.ue I didn't get the idiomatic sense of this at all. I read it as "With Zeus' approval, I must get help if I pay ..." - which probably is the literal meaning of "heaven help me if", but did not work for me. I don't know how better to do it though. > la xar. lu .ixu do caba ropamei jgici'i lenu mo'ifa'avi ba'o na'e pleji litru "jgici'i" - "proud explain?" perhaps you mean "jgicu'u"? > la men. lu .i je'a pleji doi xagrai .iji'ubo mi jacle'a le bloti gi'e sidju I didn't get "jacle'a" at all - "water take (with x2 the boat!). At least use "vimcu" rather than "lebna", but I think something like "to'e tisna" might be better still. > la xar. lu .i do cusku lo cpina .i go'e mu'i lenu mi la .ai,aKOS. tosa'a vomoi > pinka toi lenu go'e cu se cnemu loinu mi se xadyxra li'u "cnemu" for "punish" is rather good, provided it can actually mean this, and does not have a necessarily favorable sense. If it does, you need something like "je'unai" and maybe "zo'o". You seem to be asserting "go'e": "I'll do it because he rewards me for doing it ...". Is there something missing? > la xar. lu .i.e'unai ca lenu mi krecpa do; li'u "krecpa" is "hair-get" - I don't know what you meant by it. (Does the Greek talk about hair and it's not in the English, or something?) I would have thought something involving "jgari". > .i la MEnipos. goi ko'a cu tadnrfilosofo. le'a la kinik. tozoigy. cynic gy.toi > ca le ni'ucimoi ctonanca ra'ivi la gadaras. peve'a le stici sirxo gugde As far as I can make out, "ra'ivi" is not grammatical. > jdini vencu "jdini vecnu" is rather good, though it confused me at first. > .i so'o selfinti tcita > cu romei lei se finti be ru be'o poi se sanji mipeca I'm a bit unhappy with "so'o li'o tcita cu romei lei se finti li'o". Are they titles or works? I also wonder about "sanji". I take that to mean that these few items are all we know *about* now (the only ones whose existence we have heard of), not just that they are the only ones we know (have the text of). Is this your meaning? > .i ra so'oroi pilno lo se tavla be la MEnipos. be'o tu'a levo'a se > finti "He sometimes used people (who actually were) talked to by M." Is this right? >.i ko'a vajrai prenu ci'e so'i morsi je drata nu casnu pefi'e la lukiaNOS. "so'i morsi je drata nu casnu" I think expands to "so'ida poi morsi nu casnu gi'e drata nu casnu", i.e. each of the discussions is both dead and other. > > .icimai la MEnipos. ce la antistenes. ce la di'ogenes. ce la krates. noi > tadnrfilosofo le'a la kinik. cu paromei lei na klaku bevi la mromunje gi'e > roroi cmila je ckasu I think the "noi" only applies to "la krates". I don't know how to get round this. I don't particularly like the set connective "ce" here - I would use "jo'u". You can probably get away with it because it's the x1 of "paromei", though. > .imumai la lukiaNOS. skicu le tadnrfilosofo bele'a la kinik. fo lo dasni bela > tribonion. ce lo gacri bukpu co xaksu kuce lo dakli pe le janco ge'u ce lo > ganra .i le dakli cu vasru loi dembrlupino noi cidja loi pindu > I like "ce" even less here. They're wearing clothes, not a set. I can't find "pindu" in my gi'uste. Is it supposed to be "pikci"? > .ixamai la xekates. cu vipsi cevni fika'u le se cibylajykruca Has the place structure of "cevni" changed? I have only two places in my gi'uste. (I've just realised I haven't looked it up in the new logdata list, but that's not official yet, is it?) > .iseki'ubo se > pirskicu fo ci tarmi pere'o lo kamju "Three shapes next to a column"? Is that what you meant? ta'o, I like "pirskicu" > . . .pu'a la xekates. I think you mean "sepu'a" > .i ra > citka ve vimcu fi le sanmi I'm not clear on this. Does it mean "leftovers"? > .i le jdacuvri'a > se friti nemu'u lo sovda cazi se lebna lei pindu ki'u lenu leka xagji cu > jdikyri'a leni cesna terpa I can find neither "jdik-" nor "cesna", so it's hard to translate this. I guess it means "The offering gets taken by beggars because their hunger overcomes their ? fear", but the last bit doesn't parse. I think you want "leka xagji kei" > > .ibimai le mela kinik. cu zifre le marji pluka bo dacti je malpa'a gi'e na > terpa zo'e peca'a gi'e ropamei lei na senpi be lezu'e klama la xades. I wonder about "zo'e pe" (I know others have used it). Isn't "zo'e" defined to be non-designating? I suspect that "da" or "roda" is better. Nice going, Nick. Kolin c.j.fine@bradford.ac.uk