Return-Path: Received: by snark.thyrsus.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.21.1 #21.19) id ; Thu, 13 Feb 92 16:00 EST Received: by cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com (5.57/UUCP-Project/Commodore 2/8/91) id AA25434; Thu, 13 Feb 92 13:55:38 EST Received: from cunixf.cc.columbia.edu by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA14863; Thu, 13 Feb 92 13:41:58 -0500 Received: from cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu by cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (5.59/FCB) id AA19098; Thu, 13 Feb 92 13:41:56 EST Message-Id: <9202131841.AA19098@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> Received: from CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU by CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU (IBM VM SMTP R1.2.1) with BSMTP id 7113; Thu, 13 Feb 92 13:40:26 EST Received: by CUVMB (Mailer R2.07) id 2965; Thu, 13 Feb 92 13:39:27 EST Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1992 13:31:00 EST Reply-To: "61510::GILSON" Sender: Lojban list From: "61510::GILSON" Subject: "New York" X-To: lojban To: John Cowan , Eric Raymond , Eric Tiedemann Status: RO X-From-Space-Date: Thu Feb 13 16:01:05 1992 X-From-Space-Address: cbmvax!uunet!CUVMA.BITNET!LOJBAN Lojbab writes: >New York does not have an Old York nearby to be contrasted, and the >listener may not know of the one in England, and can't find it on a >typical map showing New York (the map must be in Lojban of course, or >this wouldn't be an issue). Meanwhile the locals will not recognize it >in translation either - so nothing is gained. A Bulgarian may know "ni,u.iork" while to a native the pronunciation is either "nu.iork" (my pronunciattion, and I _am_ a native) or "nu.iok" for those with non-rhotic dialects. Meanwhile, A hispanic knows it as "Nueva York" anyway. I would say that if it is common to translate the name in some languages, you should translate it into Lojban (hence the "New" of New York and New Orleans, Prince Edward Island, etc.) If it is never translated (like Los Angeles, Bethlehem, etc.) then simply Lojbanbize the pronounciation. That is _my_ opinion, though it may not count enough since I don't know enough Lojban to satisfy Lojbab's belief that "a language belongs to those who use it."