Return-Path: Received: by snark.thyrsus.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.21.1 #21.19) id ; Fri, 14 Feb 92 10:47 EST Received: by cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com (5.57/UUCP-Project/Commodore 2/8/91) id AA13790; Fri, 14 Feb 92 10:33:50 EST Received: from cunixf.cc.columbia.edu by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA22910; Fri, 14 Feb 92 05:47:23 -0500 Received: from cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu by cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (5.59/FCB) id AA02462; Fri, 14 Feb 92 05:47:26 EST Message-Id: <9202141047.AA02462@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> Received: from CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU by CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU (IBM VM SMTP R1.2.1) with BSMTP id 8381; Fri, 14 Feb 92 05:46:02 EST Received: by CUVMB (Mailer R2.07) id 7188; Fri, 14 Feb 92 05:45:39 EST Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1992 10:41:49 GMT Reply-To: Ivan A Derzhanski Sender: Lojban list From: Ivan A Derzhanski Subject: "New York" To: John Cowan , Eric Raymond , Eric Tiedemann In-Reply-To: "Mark E. Shoulson"'s message of Thu, 13 Feb 1992 14:51:28 EST <4699.9202132301@cogsci.ed.ac.uk Status: RO X-From-Space-Date: Fri Feb 14 10:47:11 1992 X-From-Space-Address: cbmvax!uunet!CUVMA.BITNET!LOJBAN > Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1992 14:51:28 EST > From: "Mark E. Shoulson" > > Bruce writes: > > > I would say that if it is common to translate the name in > >some languages, you should translate it into Lojban <...> > > Yeah, but who decides? Saying "if it's usually translated" is a wonderful > way to ask for trouble. Very good point. Suppose three of the Source Languages (tm) translate it and three don't. Or none of them does, but Bengali and Japanese do. What then? > Yeah, "New" is translated for Spanish-speakers, > but Hebrew-speakers (and if I understand Ivan correctly, > Bulgarian-speakers) talk about /niu iork/. Yes, we call it {niu.iork.}, not {ni,u.iork} as Bruce said. > Some speak of "Co^te d'Ivoire", > others of "The Ivory Coast". And keep in mind that there is no language that a Lojbani is required to know. So suppose someone doesn't know French, and (a) he is (say) a Bulgarian speaker, and in his language the country is called `coast of elephant bone'. He may not be likely to recognise {la kot. diVUAR.} at first sight, but he'll have lost nothing if he learns that this is the original name of the place. He'd have to deal with the same name if he were learning Russian. (b) he is (say) a Russian speaker, and in his language the country is called {kot. diVUAR.}, which doesn't mean a light to him, but at least he knows that this is the name. If he comes across some mysterious reference to elephants and their teeth in a Lojban text, he'll be lost. Maybe he'll end up learning about the literal meaning of the name which he has known only as a name. I think I'd prefer to go for (a). Ivan