Return-Path: Received: by snark.thyrsus.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.21.1 #21.19) id ; Sat, 8 Feb 92 03:28 EST Received: by cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com (5.57/UUCP-Project/Commodore 2/8/91) id AA19040; Fri, 7 Feb 92 22:25:21 EST Received: from cunixf.cc.columbia.edu by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA28449; Fri, 7 Feb 92 21:20:35 -0500 Received: from cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu by cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (5.59/FCB) id AA01915; Fri, 7 Feb 92 21:16:44 EST Message-Id: <9202080216.AA01915@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> Received: from CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU by CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU (IBM VM SMTP R1.2.1) with BSMTP id 6975; Fri, 07 Feb 92 21:15:21 EST Received: by CUVMB (Mailer R2.07) id 7941; Fri, 07 Feb 92 21:13:10 EST Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1992 17:53:03 -0500 Reply-To: Logical Language Group Sender: Lojban list From: Logical Language Group Subject: oops, Nick? pu'i or pu'o X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: John Cowan , Eric Raymond , Eric Tiedemann Status: RO X-From-Space-Date: Sat Feb 8 03:28:25 1992 X-From-Space-Address: cbmvax!uunet!CUVMA.BITNET!LOJBAN Nick and Colin exchange on: Nick: >>>.i tu'a mi se fuzme lenu le bajrystu cu cilmo .e lenu le bajrystu na >>>cilmo .e lenu brife .e lenu na brife .e lenu carvi .e lenu solgu'i .e >>>lenu dilnu .e lenu puzi citka le dukse kei .e lenu puzi citka noda kei >>>.e lenu puze'u na cpacu lo xatra kei .e lenu na puzi jinga fo tu'a le >>>jmaboi nunjvi cundinkei .iji'a mi se xlali nu'i lenu jivna pu le >>>dedmidju kei ki'u lenu pu'i camcikna nu'u.e lenu jivna ba le dedmidju >>>kei ki'u lenu ca djarunta .isu'a mi se xlali lonu jivna .i lei puzi se >>>cusku cu so'omei lei velci'i poi caza se cusku .iku'i mi va'o lenu xamgu >>>to jo'u xlali toi djica cu ka'e facki lo drata Colin: >>"ki'u lenu pu'i camcikna" - I think there's a negative missing here. Nick: >No. I am in the "until" of wide-awake = I am not yet wide awake. >That's how I interpret {pu'i}. I think you mean pu'o (I hope). I think you've made this mistake elsewhere, I saw a "pu'i" in Wallops #4 that looked like the same mistake. You may wish to check elsewhere. pu'o = in anticipation of - associated with the time just before an event/interval that is to occur ba'o = in the aftermath of (associated with the time immediately after the completion of an occuring event/interval ca'o = associated with the middle of an occuring event/interval A reminder, since it was forgotten briefly by me - the perfective tenses are NOT like pu and ca and ba. A claim about a relationship in the pu'o of an event suggests that it is true specifically because of association with that time period relative to the event. For English speakers, this is like the past perfect: "I have read the book." implies that the completion was in the past and that you aren't still reading it now - this is "ba'o". "pu'o" is like "I am about to read the book, which implies that you haven't been reading it before the inchoative near-future. I don't know whether this is relevant to the ongoing (ca'o) discussion but I haven't yet started (na, not na'eba'o which means something entirely different I think) to look at Nick's efforts. But it seemed appropriate to mention it since it came to mind and isn't covered in any existing published text. lojbab