From cbmvax!uunet!cuvma.bitnet!LOJBAN Fri Mar 20 15:24:16 1992 Return-Path: Received: by snark.thyrsus.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.21.1 #21.19) id ; Fri, 20 Mar 92 15:24 EST Received: by cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com (5.57/UUCP-Project/Commodore 2/8/91) id AA15887; Fri, 20 Mar 92 14:43:29 EST Received: from rutgers.edu by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA21284; Fri, 20 Mar 92 13:53:20 -0500 Received: from cbmvax.UUCP by rutgers.edu (5.59/SMI4.0/RU1.4/3.08) with UUCP id AA23204; Fri, 20 Mar 92 13:36:42 EST Received: by cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com (5.57/UUCP-Project/Commodore 2/8/91) id AA11239; Fri, 20 Mar 92 13:16:36 EST Received: from pucc.Princeton.EDU by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA29350; Fri, 20 Mar 92 12:37:38 -0500 Message-Id: <9203201737.AA29350@relay1.UU.NET> Received: from PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU by pucc.Princeton.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 6666; Fri, 20 Mar 92 12:36:34 EST Received: by PUCC (Mailer R2.08 ptf012) id 6053; Fri, 20 Mar 92 12:35:50 EST Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1992 17:22:24 GMT Reply-To: Ivan A Derzhanski Sender: Lojban list From: Ivan A Derzhanski Subject: A pair of how-do-i-say-it's To: John Cowan In-Reply-To: "Mark E. Shoulson"'s message of Tue, 17 Mar 1992 14:45:01 -0500 <28462.9203171946@cogsci.ed.ac.uk> Status: RO > Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1992 14:45:01 -0500 > From: "Mark E. Shoulson" > > <...> the {bu'a} series is like > the {da/de/di} series (while {brodX} is like {ko'a/fo'a}). So far so good. > Here's an example of a sentence I was plying with: > > George Bush is to the United States what John Major is to Great Britain. > > <...> You can use assorted > circumlocutions to get this, but I think you ought to be able to use > {bu'a}, since this is really what it's for. Just like {da} asserts "There > is some sumti/object/concept/whatever that fills this place", {bu'a} should > assert "There is some selbri/relationship that relates these sumti". Suppose we really say something like "GB {bu'a} US & JM {bu'a} UK" with whatever connective might be applicable between the two sentences. And suppose {bu'a} really means that there is some selbri which expresses a relation that holds for the given arguments. So what we get is `exists R [R (g, a) and R (j, b)]'. Now what did we say by stating this? Not much, it seems to me, for it is evident that there are a lot of possible values for R which make the sentence true. Say, `c := lambda x lambda y [is_a_citizen_of (x, y)]', `d := lambda x lambda y [has_spent_at_least_one_week_in (x, y)]', and so on. In fact, it should be possible to say `ID {bu'a} UK & GB {bu'a} US', because the sentence is true for {bu'a} = `d' (`x has spent at least one week in y'). Yet if someone says in English "Ivan is to the UK what George Bush is to the US", I'd give him a very strange look. What is going on? Since {da} really can mean any object/concept, {bu'a} should be able to mean any relation, but it obviously doesn't. Is this a problem similar to the one with the meaning of {na'e}? Ivan