From cbmvax!uunet!CUVMA.BITNET!LOJBAN Mon Mar 2 11:23:22 1992 Return-Path: Received: by snark.thyrsus.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.21.1 #21.19) id ; Mon, 2 Mar 92 11:23 EST Received: by cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com (5.57/UUCP-Project/Commodore 2/8/91) id AA29583; Mon, 2 Mar 92 11:21:22 EST Received: from cunixf.cc.columbia.edu by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA07961; Mon, 2 Mar 92 10:50:21 -0500 Received: from cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu by cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (5.59/FCB) id AA17029; Mon, 2 Mar 92 10:50:04 EST Message-Id: <9203021550.AA17029@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> Received: from CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU by CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU (IBM VM SMTP R1.2.1) with BSMTP id 1332; Mon, 02 Mar 92 10:47:43 EST Received: by CUVMB (Mailer R2.07) id 4470; Mon, 02 Mar 92 10:46:30 EST Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1992 10:45:43 -0500 Reply-To: "Mark E. Shoulson" Sender: Lojban list From: "Mark E. Shoulson" Subject: A Bulgarian spring custom X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: John Cowan , Eric Raymond , Eric Tiedemann In-Reply-To: Ivan A Derzhanski's message of Sun, 1 Mar 1992 19:57:10 GMT Status: RO Nice stuff, Ivan. I had some bits of trouble with it here and there, though I understood just about everything. >la cimast. du le pamoi masti pe le vensa noi jaica cikna binxo faile >mivmunje Minor stylistic point: this use of ellipsized {ke'a} at the beginning of relative clauses is all well and good, but the {jai} conversion can be confusing, especially here where it's not necessary. I think I'd have had an easier time with {le vensa noi le mivmunje cu cikna binxo ca ke'a} or even {le vensa noi ca ke'a le mivmunje cu cikna binxo}. {preblgaria}: probably a correct le'avla, but not necessarily the clearest. I know Nick likes to use 4-rafsi in le'avla, so as to make the rafsi/borrowing joint as "crunchy" (as he puts it) as possible. This would yield something like {prenbulgaria}, or to be really crunchy {prenrbulgaria}. The {blg} can occur in a brivla (recall that le'avla are brivla), but only in a le'avla, since only le'avla can have a vocalic l between consonants (as it must be here). >vo'epedi'u se cmene zoiby. MARtenitsa by. noi zo mart. noi valsi la >cimast. le banblgaria cu te zbasu At first I though this was ungrammatical, but now I see that it is in fact grammatical, just real confusing: the-x1 of-prior-sentence is-named "MARtenitsa" (which-is-inc-such-that the-word "mart" [which-is-inc-such-that (it) is-a-word meaning that-called "third-month" (in-lang) lang-Bulgarian] is made) I don't think you want the word "mart" being made. Maybe: vo'epedi'u se cmene zoi .by. MARtenitsa .by. noi srana zo mart. noi valsi la cimast. le banblgaria ku'o ku'o gi'e te zbasu This way we have (the-x1 of-prior-sentence) being made, not words. Ooooh, waitasec. You mean that the word is *made* from the Bulgarian word for the third month! That doesn't *quite* come from your sentence, but maybe it does with proper filling in of ellipsized places. Or maybe it would work better if I would take the time to look up up gismu and discover that {te zbasu} is building material and not assume that it's thing-made because I feel like like it. Yeah, I guess it works fine. I'll leave this meaningless commentary in anyway, so you can see the confusion; take it as you will. >le'i skari pe le remna skapi >jo'u ciblu cu sinxa fole kazyka'o ki'uledu'u da poi remna cu se flira >lo dukse beleka blabi .a leka xunre cu cusku ledu'u da bilma I think this one's ungrammatical: the-set-of colors of the human (skin as-well-as blood) are signs (urging) the quality-of-health because-of the-sentence something[it exists!] that is human is be-faced by something-excessive in (the-quality-of being-white and/or the-quality-of being-red) ?!X!X? expresses the sentence: that-something is ill. There are too many selbri for the sentence, by my count. Stuff falls apart at the ?!X!X? for me. Note also that you're asserting the existence of a sick person who is pale and/or flushed (can you be both?), not saying that if someone is pale/flushed, then he is sick. ~mark