From cbmvax!uunet!CUVMA.BITNET!LOJBAN Fri Mar 6 14:50:13 1992 Return-Path: Received: by snark.thyrsus.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.21.1 #21.19) id ; Fri, 6 Mar 92 14:50 EST Received: by cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com (5.57/UUCP-Project/Commodore 2/8/91) id AA05559; Fri, 6 Mar 92 14:33:29 EST Received: from cunixf.cc.columbia.edu by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA23955; Thu, 5 Mar 92 12:03:27 -0500 Received: from cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu by cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (5.59/FCB) id AA14795; Thu, 5 Mar 92 12:03:27 EST Message-Id: <9203051703.AA14795@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> Received: from CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU by CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU (IBM VM SMTP R1.2.1) with BSMTP id 7445; Thu, 05 Mar 92 12:01:36 EST Received: by CUVMB (Mailer R2.07) id 5025; Thu, 05 Mar 92 12:00:51 EST Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1992 12:00:27 -0500 Reply-To: "Mark E. Shoulson" Sender: Lojban list From: "Mark E. Shoulson" Subject: A Bulgarian spring custom X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: John Cowan , Eric Raymond , Eric Tiedemann In-Reply-To: Ivan A Derzhanski's message of Thu, 5 Mar 1992 13:40:00 GMT Status: RO >Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1992 13:40:00 GMT >From: Ivan A Derzhanski >> Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1992 10:33:45 -0500 >> From: "Mark E. Shoulson" >> >Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1992 22:33:09 GMT >> >From: Ivan A Derzhanski >> >I'm not sure this [sc. {prenbulgaria}] is a legal le'avla. You shouldn't >> >have to get to the very end of the word to find out that it is not a lujvo. >> I'm pretty sure it's legal, though it may not be preferable. >I think it said something about there having to be an impermissible >consonant cluster in the first so-and-so-many lerfu of the word. Yes, but that's an impermissible *initial*, so as prevent *tosmabru dissolution. You can't have impermissible *medials* (not counting vocalic consonsants) in general. Since "nb" isn't a permissible initial, {prenbulgaria} is okay. Am I right on this? >> >I object against the {u} in {bul}. The original language has {y}, >> >which I removed in order to (1) make the word a legal le'avla and (2) >> >obtain an impermissible cluster. >> (*shrug*). It's your le'avla, whatever makes you happy. I don't speak >> Bulgarian, so I sort of assumed it really was a {u}. You're the expert. >It is not a matter of making me happy, merely of deriving the le'avla >from what the country is called in her own language. The original >vowel is {y}, replaced by {u} or {o} in languages that lack {y} as a >full-fledged vowel, such as German or Esperanto. Lojban needn't do that. I assumed it was {u} because so many languages lack schwa as a full-fledged vowel, so I didn't know Bulgarian had it. Using the l vocalically works well to get that across. >> >But I'm sure {zbasu} is not the best word for word-building. >> >> Probably {krasi} would be better. >Hm. If "martenitza" is used in an English text (as a loanword), {le >krasi} will be {le banblgaria}, whereas {le te zbasu} will still be >{zo mart.}. It might be a useful distinction. Grumble. You're probably right. >> >> Note also that you're asserting the existence of a >> >> sick person who is pale and/or flushed (can you be both?), >> >No, but so what? >> Nothing major, except that you used the inclusive or. Doesn't really >> matter much, it's a matter of preference, and I'd very likely do the same. >"IOR" is always true when "XOR" is true. It is also true in some >other cases, but those don't happen in real life, so it doesn't matter. As I said, it's a matter of taste. Since IOR is a superset of XOR, you're perfectly entitled to use it (and I might as well, in the same situation.) ~mark