From cbmvax!uunet!CUVMA.BITNET!LOJBAN Tue Mar 10 04:15:27 1992 Return-Path: Received: by snark.thyrsus.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.21.1 #21.19) id ; Tue, 10 Mar 92 04:15 EST Received: by cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com (5.57/UUCP-Project/Commodore 2/8/91) id AA19038; Tue, 10 Mar 92 03:17:45 EST Received: from pucc.PRINCETON.EDU by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA15158; Tue, 10 Mar 92 01:27:33 -0500 Message-Id: <9203100627.AA15158@relay1.UU.NET> Received: from PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU by pucc.PRINCETON.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 6712; Tue, 10 Mar 92 01:27:03 EST Received: by PUCC (Mailer R2.08 PTF010) id 7760; Tue, 10 Mar 92 01:26:45 EST Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1992 00:39:58 -0500 Reply-To: Logical Language Group Sender: Lojban list From: Logical Language Group Subject: Re: Good luck... you'll *need* it. X-To: rick%DISCUS.MIL.WI.US@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu X-Cc: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: John Cowan , Eric Raymond , Eric Tiedemann Status: RO Sorry you feel that way. I suspect you are missing much of the point because we don't have the simple postal lessons that Esperanto has yet. Just the mini-lesson (which I think I sent you email - did you attempt it?) No Lojban is not as easy to learn as the 10 postal lessons of Esperanto. You can learn the equivalent SUBSET of Lojban in about the same amount of time, but since we haven't written such polished teaching materials, you have to work a bit more at it. But Nick Nicholas, the most prolific writer on the net, is also an Esperantist leader, and he found himself able to learn Lojban in 1 weekend, since having learned one conlang, he knew what questions to ask. But you will find that those 10 postal lessons ARE a subset of Esperanto. You will be able to read a lot of stuff with them, if you have a dictionary (we're still writing our first one of these), but if you want to write and translate, you will find that you need a much more intense course of study, one almost certainly as complex as a similar Lojban course. You might only find it easier because you will recognize more of the roots on sight, and MAYBE to the limited extent you can apply your memories of English grammar formal rules or detailed study of a European language. The convulted stuff that is being discussed on the LOjban List texts are not simple postings like those on soc.cult.esp. Nick is translating ancient Greek literature (and working on Plato - among the heaviest of philosophers); Cowan just translated a chunk of Beowolf from the Anglo Saxon. You have a legit complaint if you say we aren't posting simple stuff for beginners to read on Lojban List, and if you decide you want to wait until more such simple text exists before investigating further, I don't blame you. I'd like to see more people write simple stuff. But the problem is that the people who are interested in Lojban aren't satisfied with tackling easy things, and the fact that they are able to do this convoluted stuff within a few months of study should indicate to you that it is possible and not too difficult (not merely that Lojban is convoluted or for twisted minds). I hope you will reconsider us, when we've gotten more solid materials for beginners together. And I will urge more beginners who are being frustrated by the complexity of the stuff being presented on Lojban List to speak up BEFORE you get fed up. Ask questions - lots of them. People are willing to answer them, indeed WANT to answer them. But we move past the beginner point so quickly that it is hard to invent them ourselves. ---- lojbab = Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273 lojbab@grebyn.com