From cbmvax!uunet!CUVMA.BITNET!LOJBAN Tue Mar 10 04:15:31 1992 Return-Path: Received: by snark.thyrsus.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.21.1 #21.19) id ; Tue, 10 Mar 92 04:15 EST Received: by cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com (5.57/UUCP-Project/Commodore 2/8/91) id AA19100; Tue, 10 Mar 92 03:17:54 EST Received: from pucc.PRINCETON.EDU by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA15343; Tue, 10 Mar 92 01:28:33 -0500 Message-Id: <9203100628.AA15343@relay1.UU.NET> Received: from PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU by pucc.PRINCETON.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 6748; Tue, 10 Mar 92 01:28:04 EST Received: by PUCC (Mailer R2.08 PTF010) id 7840; Tue, 10 Mar 92 01:27:51 EST Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1992 01:00:37 -0500 Reply-To: Logical Language Group Sender: Lojban list From: Logical Language Group Subject: names X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: John Cowan , Eric Raymond , Eric Tiedemann Status: RO Now , Now! No need to flame. I didn't say the job would be easy, of course, nor that there wouldn;t be some hairy issues to raise and solve. To the extent that Nick and Ivan and Colin and others have discussed the topic, I've seen a lot of complicated issues raised, and even a few answers given. Some thoughts - that may not be answers 1) I think that the name of the country as presented by the natives to outsiders is the logical one when there are many local languages, and/or many forms of the name in use. 2) There need not be only one correct answer. la xelvician can perhaps be paired with la suis. or la suisen. la *lagos. is illegal, but the country can be la naidjerias. or perhaps a semi-recognizablae hybrid: la nijerias. The latter sounds close and preserves visual recognition and most of the pronunciation. 3) In the last example, it may be obviosu that I consider a) a single vowel change to be unimportant - after all, almost every language will require SOME vowel shifts. Visual recognition, or avoiding the illegal "la" are good reasons for such a shift. b) dropping the stop in an affricate has a valid precedent in Lojban, since we did so in making the Lojbanized words for the gismu. If this enhgances visual recognition - all the better. Ivan, the way we teach 'o' here, "la london" would end up more like /lah loandoan/. The /aw/ diphthong is heard by me and most middle and western USAn speakers as 'a', not 'o', unless the roundedness is particularly emphasized. I also favor /lndn/, and this is also what JCB chose as one of his major examples. lojbab