From cbmvax!uunet!CUVMA.BITNET!LOJBAN Thu Mar 12 22:40:22 1992 Return-Path: Received: by snark.thyrsus.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.21.1 #21.19) id ; Thu, 12 Mar 92 22:40 EST Received: by cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com (5.57/UUCP-Project/Commodore 2/8/91) id AA21173; Thu, 12 Mar 92 22:27:10 EST Received: from pucc.Princeton.EDU by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA04349; Thu, 12 Mar 92 21:39:23 -0500 Message-Id: <9203130239.AA04349@relay1.UU.NET> Received: from PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU by pucc.Princeton.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 9677; Thu, 12 Mar 92 21:38:13 EST Received: by PUCC (Mailer R2.08 PTF011) id 9497; Thu, 12 Mar 92 21:38:04 EST Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1992 21:36:27 -0500 Reply-To: "Mark E. Shoulson" Sender: Lojban list From: "Mark E. Shoulson" Subject: Lojban Names. X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: John Cowan , Eric Raymond , Eric Tiedemann In-Reply-To: Ivan A Derzhanski's message of Thu, 12 Mar 1992 23:12:26 GMT Status: RO Ivan writes: >As I see it, when I need to mention a place name for real in a Lojban >text, I'll use zoi or la'o quotes and the original spelling within. Bingo! I think mentioned this once before, and for my money it's really the only way out of this whole messy discussion. Only since la'o quotes are a pain in the rump, we compromise: When mentioning a place/person for the first time in an "official Lojban document", use la'o, *and* assign a normal cmene with {goi} (and also assign whatever other variables, too). So, I might start talking about a city.... la'o .gic. Philadelphia .gic goi la filyDELfi,as. cu barda je tcadu ... that-named-quoted "Philadelphia", referred to as that-named filydelfi,as., is big-and-a-city. Philadelphia is a big city. (because I didn't feel like doing {barda tcadu}, that's why). Yow, you almost caught me with {*filadelfi,as.}! Or similarly: la'o .gic. Margaret Thatcher .gic. goi la tatcr. zi'egoi ko'a cu bacru ca le purlamdei zo'esa'ali'o... that-named-quoted "Margaret Thatcher", hereafter referred to as "tatcr.", and hereafter referred to as She1, said during the prior-adjacent-day... Margaret T. said yesterday.... And so on. Discussions about the meanings of the name ("New", "West", etc) can be done either metalinguistically or even in the text normally: You wouldn't take the time out to bother explaining if it weren't important in some way, most likely. Um, no, I *don't* think doing latitude and longitude is a good plan in general, though it might be a useful auxiliary in cases where we can't assume the hearer has ever heard of New York... ~mark