Return-Path: Received: by snark.thyrsus.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.21.1 #21.19) id ; Fri, 6 Mar 92 18:49 EST Received: by cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com (5.57/UUCP-Project/Commodore 2/8/91) id AA27328; Fri, 6 Mar 92 18:31:25 EST Received: from cunixf.cc.columbia.edu by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA05164; Fri, 6 Mar 92 17:22:46 -0500 Received: from cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu by cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (5.59/FCB) id AA14288; Fri, 6 Mar 92 16:12:30 EST Message-Id: <9203062112.AA14288@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> Received: from CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU by CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU (IBM VM SMTP R1.2.1) with BSMTP id 9329; Fri, 06 Mar 92 16:10:45 EST Received: by CUVMB (Mailer R2.07) id 1758; Fri, 06 Mar 92 16:09:28 EST Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1992 16:08:44 -0500 Reply-To: "Mark E. Shoulson" Sender: Lojban list From: "Mark E. Shoulson" Subject: Hans Christian Andersen X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: John Cowan , Eric Raymond , Eric Tiedemann In-Reply-To: nsn%MULLIAN.EE.MU.OZ.AU@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu's message of Sat, 7 Mar 1992 00:21:42 +1000 Status: RO X-From-Space-Date: Fri Mar 6 18:49:43 1992 X-From-Space-Address: cbmvax!uunet!CUVMA.BITNET!LOJBAN Only one note, I'm running late: >.i ko'a djica lo nolraixli .i ri mulno >beloka nolraixli be'o jo se zanru beko'a I don't like {ko'a djica lo nolraixli}; I see a cleft-place problem here. You {djica} an event, not a person. Nick had fun with this when he decided that dikyjvo were too restrictive, coming up with places for {ponsydjica}. Similarly with {nitcu}. You don't need soap, you need *the event/state/etc. of your having soap*. There's a difference. So I'd use {ko'a djica tu'a lo nolraixli}. I note in passing that "need"/nitcu in Okrand's Klingon is not a verb in itself, but a suffix to be attached to the verb. Thus, you can only "need" a *sentence*/predication, not an object. Other suffixes are also there (e.g. I find no verb "to refuse". There's an exclamation "I refuse!" in general, but to ask "did he refuse?" you must ask "did he refuse to do x?", using the refusal suffix Qo'.) ~mark