Return-Path: Received: by snark.thyrsus.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.21.1 #21.19) id ; Tue, 31 Mar 92 19:09 EST Received: by cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com (5.57/UUCP-Project/Commodore 2/8/91) id AA26434; Tue, 31 Mar 92 18:22:27 EST Received: from pucc.Princeton.EDU by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA21453; Tue, 31 Mar 92 16:43:08 -0500 Message-Id: <9203312143.AA21453@relay1.UU.NET> Received: from PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU by pucc.Princeton.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 3940; Tue, 31 Mar 92 14:02:48 EST Received: by PUCC (Mailer R2.08 ptf016) id 4784; Tue, 31 Mar 92 14:02:29 EST Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1992 13:59:27 -0500 Reply-To: "Mark E. Shoulson" Sender: Lojban list From: "Mark E. Shoulson" Subject: Re: Quine text X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: John Cowan , Eric Raymond , Eric Tiedemann Status: RO X-From-Space-Date: Tue Mar 31 19:09:47 1992 X-From-Space-Address: cbmvax!uunet!CUVMA.BITNET!LOJBAN Dave@PRC.Unisys.COM writes in response to a comment I made in response to Nick's ramblings on the Quine text. Unfortunately, he accidentally sent it to me and not the list, and has asked me to forward it, so here it comes: -------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 31 Mar 92 12:07:39 EST From: dave@PRC.Unisys.COM To: shoulson@ctr.columbia.edu Subject: Re: Quine text > By that reasoning, {loi remna cu morsi} would work well for "Man is mortal" > (would {lo'e remna} be better?), and {lo'i remna noroi morsi} would work > for "Man is immortal" (i.e. the human race as an entity). Gosh, I hope this is wrong. It's good that Lojban makes a distinction between "mass" and "collective" (though these don't seem like great terms to use). This is a useful distinction to make if one is trying to be clear. However, problems arise when similar words can be used in the same context with different meanings. In spoken English I find "can" and "can't" to be the worst offenders [as in "I cang go with you"]. In written English "now" and "not" are problematical ["We are now/not ready."] because, though apparently clear and unambiguous, each word is easy to mistype as the other. My Lojban is still very very weak, but it sounds from what mark says as though {loi}, {lo'i}, and {lo'e} can all be used in identical contexts, with different meanings. These sound very much alike, particularly the first two. I should think that someone who has learned to type these words would also tend to type one for another. If these similar-sounding words can be used in the same context, this would be a Bad Thing. It's OK for completely different words to sound alike (such as "hungry" and "Hungary"), because they don't occur in similar contexts; it's not OK for words that are used in identical contexts to sound alike. Comments? --dave