Return-Path: Received: by snark.thyrsus.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.21.1 #21.19) id ; Wed, 18 Mar 92 11:42 EST Received: by cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com (5.57/UUCP-Project/Commodore 2/8/91) id AA06816; Wed, 18 Mar 92 10:39:01 EST Received: from pucc.Princeton.EDU by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AB29221; Wed, 18 Mar 92 10:29:21 -0500 Message-Id: <9203181529.AB29221@relay1.UU.NET> Received: from PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU by pucc.Princeton.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 3856; Wed, 18 Mar 92 10:27:43 EST Received: by PUCC (Mailer R2.08 ptf012) id 3615; Wed, 18 Mar 92 10:27:37 EST Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1992 10:25:26 -0500 Reply-To: "Mark E. Shoulson" Sender: Lojban list From: "Mark E. Shoulson" Subject: Primer text, shoeboxed. X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: John Cowan , Eric Raymond , Eric Tiedemann Status: RO X-From-Space-Date: Wed Mar 18 11:42:47 1992 X-From-Space-Address: cbmvax!uunet!CUVMA.BITNET!LOJBAN Well, I fed the primer text into shoebox, and here's what came out: The line marked "\juf" is sort of the record marker, so I can store the sentences in their db also. "\zoi" is the original text. "\luj" is a repeat of the cmavo or gismu above, or else the gismu of the rafsi above, used to analyze lujvo. "\gl" is the gloss. I put exclamation points after each sentence; shoebox needs sentence-ending punctuation, not words. Probably unnecessary. I took apart cmavo compounds by hand, shoebox could only do that with a dictionary of all compounds. Ditto lujvo; I took them apart myself. To avoid cmavo/rafsi overlap, I store all 3-rafsi with a prepended underscore, which I added. I threw in a dash afterwards just for human readers. I don't store the 4-rafsi yet, but there was no need. I prepended gismu being used as their own rafsi with a comma, so you know they're not standing alone. \juf sent 001 \zoi le nanla joi le nixli cu kelci! \luj le nanla joi le nixli cu kelci \gl the boy mixed the girl (selbri) play Lucky for you, Bob, this isn't a parser. Your sentence isn't grammatical: should be {le nanlu *ku* joi le nixli cu kelci}. The interlinearizer only takes the first word of the gloss, and I didn't go through the whole list to come up with meaningful 1-word glosses, so you have things like {joi} glossed as "mixed" instead of "mixed mass" or whatever. \juf sent 002 \zoi .i xa mei ke cmalu ke nanla je nixli! \luj .i xa mei ke cmalu ke nanla je nixli \gl .(eos) 6 cardinal type small type boy and girl I made {.i} gloss to .(eos), for end-of-sentence. It's more like the beginning, but whatever. Same problem with {ke} going to "type". You can get better glosses, if you try... You sure you want {nanla je nixli}? Doesn't that imply they're both boys *and* girls, simultaneously in the same body? \juf sent 003 \zoi .i ko zgana le nu rapli djine litru! \luj .i ko zgana le nu rapli djine litru \gl .(eos) you! observe the event repeat ring travel \juf sent 004 \zoi .i ko na dukse sutra ke rapli djine litru! \luj .i ko na dukse sutra ke rapli djine litru \gl .(eos) you! not excess fast type repeat ring travel \juf sent 005 \zoi .i cumki fa le nu farlu gi'e se ri'a bo se xrani! \luj .i cumki fa le nu farlu gi'e se ri'a bo se xrani \gl .(eos) possible 1st the event fall and 2nd because short 2nd injure I use "2nd", "3rd", etc. for the SE converters, mostly because that's how they were from the lists, and anyway their full glosses would be far too complex to capture in one English word, even with a choice of several. \juf sent 006 \zoi .i lo nanla .e lo nixli cu se minde fi to'e bo \luj .i lo nanla .e lo nixli cu se minde fi to'e bo \gl .(eos) a/the boy and a/the girl (selbri) 2nd command 3rd polar short \zoi le ka to'e clite _nun- ,kelci! \luj le ka to'e clite nu kelci \gl the quality polar polite event play Lost the "opposite" part of the gloss for {to'e}. I can fix that by making the db store "polar_opposite" or something. Note how _nun expanded to nu and then to event. Second lesson: \juf sent 007 \zoi me le vanci canci solri! \luj me le vanci canci solri \gl (to_selbri) the evening vanish solar So we have "solar" for sun; that's what the list gave us. {me} seems to be a word that I tweaked so as to get the (to_selbri), which looks better than whatever would have been there by default. \juf sent 008 \zoi ni'o ko catlu le solri! \luj ni'o ko catlu le solri \gl new you! look the solar Can't put in the prepositions that ENglish wants but Lojban hasn't got. Could make {catlu} into "look_at", I guess, but even then thirs and following places would be blown. \juf sent 009 \zoi .i ko viska le nu ri dizlo klama vi le stici! \luj .i ko viska le nu ri dizlo klama vi le stici \gl .(eos) you! see the event last low come here the west Not really good glosses for {ri} and {vi}; but you can see where they came from. \juf sent 010 \zoi .i ma pu zbasu le solri! \luj .i ma pu zbasu le solri \gl .(eos) sumti_? before make the solar \juf sent 011 \zoi .i la cev goi ko'a go'i doi verba \luj .i la *** goi ko'a go'i doi verba \gl .(eos) that_named *** (assign) it_1 ditto_bridi vocative child \zoi ne mi! \luj ne mi \gl incidental me Couldn't gloss {cev.} of course, so I told it to skip it. \juf sent 012 \zoi .i ri pu zbasu le solri .e le lunra .e le tarci! \luj .i ri pu zbasu le solri .e le lunra .e le tarci \gl .(eos) last before make the solar and the lunar and the star Hmmm. Would {ri} hit {verba ne mi} by backcounting? And why {ne mi}? I'm not sure it should be {pe mi} either, but I'm uncertain with the {ne}. \juf sent 013 \zoi .i ga nai la cev. viska mi gi'e djuno ro da \luj .i ga nai la *** viska mi gi'e djuno ro da \gl .(eos) fore negate that_named *** see me and know all some \zoi poi mi zukte! \luj poi mi zukte \gl restrictive me act Missed the "or" part of {ga}. \juf sent 014 \zoi gi ko'a ja'e tirna _sel- ,bacru be mi .i \luj gi ko'a ja'e tirna se bacru be mi .i \gl connective it_1 therefore_result hear 2nd utter (link) me .(eos) Oops, didn't break the sentence right. Oh well. That tanru seems a little odd: "ko'a resultingly is hearingly uttered by me"? And the {be} isn't necessary, though it doesn't hurt. You probably wanted a {loi} or something before the {selbacru}. \zoi doi mi ko bacru no valsi poi xlali gi'e zukte no da \luj doi mi ko bacru no valsi poi xlali gi'e zukte no da \gl vocative me you! utter 0 word restrictive bad and act 0 some \zoi poi xlali! \luj poi xlali \gl restrictive bad \juf sent 015 \zoi se mu'i le du'u la cev. na zanru lo xlali \luj se mu'i le du'u la *** na zanru lo xlali \gl 2nd because the the_sentence: that_named *** not approve a/the bad \zoi valsi .a le xlali _sel- ,zukte! \luj valsi .a le xlali se zukte \gl word or the bad 2nd act The {.a} makes sense in English, but I'm not so sure in Lojban. We need a conjunction paper pretty badly. By the common method of expansion Colin often uses with devastating effect (devastating to those who misuse conjunctions), we get {ga la cev. na zanru lo xlali valsi gi la cev. na zanru lo xlali selzukte}, "[either] 'god' doesn't approve-of bad-words, [or, and possibly both] 'god' doesn't approve of bad things-acted." Hmmm. Doesn't seem quite right. Colin, you're good at conjunctions, what do you think? Note that you can always put in free-form translations afterwards; in fact the interlinearizer has a feature that will do a sentence, and then put in the free-form line and wait for you to type it in. ~mark