Return-Path: Received: by snark.thyrsus.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.21.1 #21.19) id ; Thu, 19 Mar 92 06:09 EST Received: by cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com (5.57/UUCP-Project/Commodore 2/8/91) id AA07630; Thu, 19 Mar 92 06:06:16 EST Received: from pucc.Princeton.EDU by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA13765; Thu, 19 Mar 92 04:08:49 -0500 Message-Id: <9203190908.AA13765@relay1.UU.NET> Received: from PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU by pucc.Princeton.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 8036; Thu, 19 Mar 92 04:07:56 EST Received: by PUCC (Mailer R2.08 ptf012) id 3981; Thu, 19 Mar 92 04:07:47 EST Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1992 18:54:36 GMT Reply-To: CJ FINE Sender: Lojban list From: CJ FINE Subject: Re: Place names X-To: iad@cogsci.edinburgh.ac.uk X-Cc: Lojban list To: John Cowan , Eric Raymond , Eric Tiedemann In-Reply-To: ; from "Ivan A Derzhanski" at Mar 14, 92 11:02 am Status: RO X-From-Space-Date: Thu Mar 19 06:09:35 1992 X-From-Space-Address: cbmvax!uunet!CUVMA.BITNET!LOJBAN Ivan: > > I would also very much like to learn how exactly you carried out your > research which showed that Japanese speakers would find it easier to > learn to pronounce the consonant {j} than syllable-final {p}. I think your obvious annoyance is betraying you into nonsense, Ivan. "j" is well within the phonetic range of the Japanese phoneme /J-/ (as in "jibun", ("zibun" in kunrei-siki)). > > > For Hungary, the official name is "Magyar". We are respecting the people > > of that country by calling it la magiar. > > You are insulting the people of that country by claiming that her > official name is "Magyar", whereas in reality it is "Magyarorsza1g" > ("a1" is a-acute), pronounced {m@#@rorsa:g}, where {@} can be equally > fairly rendered as {a} or {o}, {#} as {gi}, {di} or {dj}, {:} denotes > length, and the stress is on the first syllable. You are right, but again "insulting" is inaccurate, and a product of your emotion. > Not really. First, they will have no use for the lojbanised name. I > would always prefer to pronounce a name from my country in the natural > way, in quotes, rather than make it into a cmene, which in a huge > number of cases will mean distorting it beyond recognition. Second, > one can always call his own country `my country', and get away with it. > As you have pointed out at the beginning of your mail, if you are talking to a foreigner in that foreigner's own language you will normally refer to your own country in the form it is named in that language. kolin