From cbmvax!uunet!cuvma.bitnet!LOJBAN Thu Apr 2 02:31:30 1992 Return-Path: Date: Thu Apr 2 02:31:30 1992 Message-Id: <9204012008.AA02778@relay1.UU.NET> Reply-To: And Rosta Sender: Lojban list From: And Rosta Subject: Re: sets and masses (was: Quine text) To: John Cowan In-Reply-To: (Your message of Tue, 31 Mar 92 14:11:28 EST.) <41925.9203312011@bas-a.bcc.ac.uk> Status: RO John: > Mark Shoulson writes: > > > By that reasoning, {loi remna cu morsi} would work well for "Man is mortal" > > (would {lo'e remna} be better?), and {lo'i remna noroi morsi} would work > > for "Man is immortal" (i.e. the human race as an entity). > > All these are correct. However, any set whatever can be put in the x1 place > of "noroi morsi", because no set is ever dead, sets not being the sorts of > things which live or die. Therefore, > > lo'i morsi cu noroi morsi > The-set-of dead-things are-never dead > > is also true. But you could say that a set dies at such a time as it becomes empty. This is in fact how I understood "Man is immortal". (Actually, I understood "The type Man will always exist".) > I think the real point of "Man is immortal" is something like: > > roroiku da poi remna naku zo'u da morsi > At-all-times there-exists a-human such-that-it-is-false that it is-dead. > This is a valid reading, but I was hoping that the treatment of "Man is immortal" would also cover: The dodo is extinct. The rat is widespread. Note that in English we can say: The dodo, which couldn't fly, is extinct. I think to say this in Lojban you'd have to say 'dodo' twice with a different descriptor each time? As "Sophy ran for an hour each day for five years" shows, the bridi itself can be a class generic (man is immortal, ran for 5 years) or a prototype generic (man is mortal, ran for an hour each day). --- And