Return-Path: Received: by snark.thyrsus.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.21.1 #21.19) id ; Tue, 16 Jun 92 09:33 EDT Received: by cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com (5.57/UUCP-Project/Commodore 2/8/91) id AA01262; Tue, 16 Jun 92 09:34:01 EDT Received: from pucc.Princeton.EDU by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA17592; Tue, 16 Jun 92 08:59:17 -0400 Message-Id: <9206161259.AA17592@relay2.UU.NET> Received: from PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU by pucc.Princeton.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 0550; Tue, 16 Jun 92 08:57:40 EDT Received: by PUCC (Mailer R2.08 ptf024) id 3114; Tue, 16 Jun 92 08:57:22 EDT Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1992 13:48:59 BST Reply-To: Ivan A Derzhanski Sender: Lojban list From: Ivan A Derzhanski Subject: More Wind from the North X-To: LOJBAN@CUVMA.BITNET To: John Cowan , Eric Raymond , Eric Tiedemann In-Reply-To: "Mark E. Shoulson"'s message of Tue, 9 Jun 1992 15:33:36 -0400 <3453.9206091936@cogsci.ed.ac.uk> Status: RO X-Status: X-From-Space-Date: Tue Jun 16 09:33:14 1992 X-From-Space-Address: cbmvax!uunet!CUVMB.BITNET!LOJBAN > Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1992 15:33:36 -0400 > From: "Mark E. Shoulson" > > We have been using the indefinite form of whatever we're talking about in > most cases, like {mi djuno ledu'u do co'ekau}=="I know what you are/do", > and not the questioning form, {mi djuno ledu'u do mokau}, which would > probably be something more like "What is it that I know about you?". So > far, that make sense? No. `What is it that I know about you?' (or `What is it that I know that you are/do?') is just {mi djuno ledu'u do mo}. Besides, John said that it doesn't matter exactly what word {kau} is attached to. It is only its selma'o that matters. But I now say that {kau} is not a solution to anything. Consider: {mi djuno ledu'u ma klama} `Who do I know that comes?' {mi djuno ledu'u makau klama} `I know who comes.' Now allow me to add one more level of embedding. {mi djuno ledu'u do djuno ledu'u ma klama} `Who do I know that you know that comes?' (`Who is the one such that I know that you know that he comes?') ? `I know who you know that comes.' (`I know who the one is such that you know that he comes.') ? `I know that you know who comes.' (`I know that you know who the one is such that he comes.') One of these two (I have no way to guess which) may be {mi djuno ledu'u do djuno ledu'u makau klama}, but the other ... So I hereby question the usefulness of {kau}. Ivan