From lojbab@lojban.org Fri Jun 15 02:50:10 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojbab@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 15 Jun 2001 09:50:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 6731 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2001 09:50:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Jun 2001 09:50:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO stmpy-4.cais.net) (205.252.14.74) by mta3 with SMTP; 15 Jun 2001 09:50:09 -0000 Received: from bob.lojban.org (143.dynamic.cais.com [207.226.56.143]) by stmpy-4.cais.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f5F9o7P14971 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 05:50:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010615054742.00d1e510@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: vir1036/pop.cais.com@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 05:55:29 -0400 To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [lojban] An approach to attitudinals In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: "Bob LeChevalier (lojbab)" At 12:09 AM 06/15/2001 +0000, Jorge Llambias wrote: >la lojbab cusku di'e > >But plausibly it can mean "I am happy now" about a situation (bridi) that I > >am presently considering which is not a present reality, which > >pragmatically often means "I would be happy if". > >No, "I would be happy if" is very different from "I am happy >that it could be so". Only the second one can be handled with {ui}. >Would-be happiness has to be {a'o} or {au}. I am daydreaming about my ideal world when I say the first. At the time I make that sentence, it is true. Then I realize it is only in my mind, and add a sentence that indicates it is conditional. (Hey, I'm not saying that these unusual cases are common, merely that the rules of thumb are reflecting a pragmatic norm that simply doesn't always hold. .ui usually means that we are asserting the bridi, because we WOULD normally recognize and use .a'o or au for would-be happiness. I reject the impossibility of no other pragmatic case.) lojbab -- lojbab lojbab@lojban.org Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273 Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org