From xod@sixgirls.org Fri Jun 15 04:02:59 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: xod@reva.sixgirls.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 15 Jun 2001 11:02:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 12230 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2001 11:02:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 15 Jun 2001 11:02:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO reva.sixgirls.org) (64.152.7.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 15 Jun 2001 11:02:58 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by reva.sixgirls.org (8.11.3/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f5FB2vQ08322 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 07:02:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 07:02:56 -0400 (EDT) To: Subject: Are attitudinals assertions? (was: Attitudinals again (was: Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010615053835.00e06100@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: Invent Yourself On Fri, 15 Jun 2001, Bob LeChevalier (lojbab) wrote: > At 03:41 PM 06/14/2001 -0400, Invent Yourself wrote: > >On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Bob LeChevalier (lojbab) wrote: > > > >You displayed it through the use of "gleki". > > > > > > No. He CLAIMED it - he might have done so in a monotone, and he might have > > > falsely claimed it. Assertions can be true or false. Emotional displays > > > simply ARE. > > > >With a fake smile or a contrived tantrum, emotional displays can be > >faked. They are assertions of ones feelings, no? > > Lojban design does not recognize the possibility of false > attitudinals. Hopefully it will never need to. But the possibility is built into human behavior, even as much as I would like to live in a world where nobody lies, to themselves or others. But I am seeing people in this discussion agree to respect an invisible boundary between logical assertions and emotional expressions. I am not sure it really exists. If .ui means "I am happy...", that is a provable logical assertion about the reality of my emotions. There are situations where you will call me a liar if I say .ui. Sales one, blatant denial another, politics a third. ----- We do not like And if a cat those Rs and Ds, needed a hat? Who can't resist Free enterprise more subsidies. is there for that! From xod@sixgirls.org Fri Jun 15 04:02:59 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: xod@reva.sixgirls.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 15 Jun 2001 11:02:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 12230 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2001 11:02:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 15 Jun 2001 11:02:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO reva.sixgirls.org) (64.152.7.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 15 Jun 2001 11:02:58 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by reva.sixgirls.org (8.11.3/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f5FB2vQ08322 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 07:02:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 07:02:56 -0400 (EDT) To: Subject: Are attitudinals assertions? (was: Attitudinals again (was: Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010615053835.00e06100@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: Invent Yourself On Fri, 15 Jun 2001, Bob LeChevalier (lojbab) wrote: > At 03:41 PM 06/14/2001 -0400, Invent Yourself wrote: > >On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Bob LeChevalier (lojbab) wrote: > > > >You displayed it through the use of "gleki". > > > > > > No. He CLAIMED it - he might have done so in a monotone, and he might have > > > falsely claimed it. Assertions can be true or false. Emotional displays > > > simply ARE. > > > >With a fake smile or a contrived tantrum, emotional displays can be > >faked. They are assertions of ones feelings, no? > > Lojban design does not recognize the possibility of false > attitudinals. Hopefully it will never need to. But the possibility is built into human behavior, even as much as I would like to live in a world where nobody lies, to themselves or others. But I am seeing people in this discussion agree to respect an invisible boundary between logical assertions and emotional expressions. I am not sure it really exists. If .ui means "I am happy...", that is a provable logical assertion about the reality of my emotions. There are situations where you will call me a liar if I say .ui. Sales one, blatant denial another, politics a third. ----- We do not like And if a cat those Rs and Ds, needed a hat? Who can't resist Free enterprise more subsidies. is there for that!