Return-Path: Message-Id: <9208210912.AA07379@relay1.UU.NET> Date: Fri Aug 21 13:22:25 1992 Reply-To: cbmvax!uunet!oasis.icl.co.uk!I.Alexander.bra0122 Sender: Lojban list From: cbmvax!uunet!oasis.icl.co.uk!I.Alexander.bra0122 Subject: gadri X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: John Cowan Status: RO X-From-Space-Date: Fri Aug 21 13:22:25 1992 X-From-Space-Address: cbmvax!uunet!cuvmb.bitnet!LOJBAN loi gadri zo'u The distinction between {le} and {lo} (and their variants) seems to serve a multitude of purposes. le vs. lo the vs. a specific vs. non-specific definite vs. indefinite non-veridical vs. veridical already-known vs. unknown I'm still trying to make up my mind which of these properties amount to the same thing. As far as I can make out, the "veridical" distinction is the most fundamental. {le cukta} means "the-thing-which-I-am-describing-as-a book", but with the rider that I don't feel the need to be more specific, because I expect you to know from the context which book I am talking about. This is an alternative way of referring to previously- mentioned sumti, without always assigning a KOhA. Note that this makes the specific/definite descriptions ambiguous. When I use {le}, I _am_ referring to something specific, *but I'm not specifying it now*. It is something which has been specified earlier. When I use {lo}, I am almost certainly immediately going to start telling you enough about it so that it becomes specific. Having talked myself through to this point, it all seems remarkably straightforward - the above properties are all essentially the same - which probably means I've lost sight of the real problem. I've certainly had as much trouble in the past choosing the right gadri as anyone else. So I need to go away and actually write some Lojban (I haven't done that for _ages_ :), try to put the above theory into practice, and see if it works. But just a final warning that I don't think we should try and put too much reliance on the _descriptive_ nature of {le}. If I want to describe something as {le ratcu}, even though it isn't really, because I can't think of any better word, or for some other reason ("the so-called rat" - no that would be {la ratcu}), I don't think {le}'s the answer. Iain.