From cowan Sat Mar 6 22:51:11 2010 Subject: Re: la (was: gadri ) To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu (Lojban List) From: cowan Date: Mon, 24 Aug 92 11:52:41 EDT In-Reply-To: <9208211546.AA24595@relay1.UU.NET>; from "math.ucla.edu!jimc" at Aug 21, 92 8:43 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Status: RO X-From-Space-Date: Mon Aug 24 11:52:41 1992 X-From-Space-Address: cowan Message-ID: la djim. kartr. cusku di'e > I'm not totally sure on this construction, but I think "a so-called > rat" might be rendered as "da poi ratcu .iacu'i". I restrict "da" to > actually be a rat, except that the speaker's belief in the predicate > relation (being a rat) is indicated to be of zero intensity. In other > words, the speaker is preparing the listener for a subsequent discovery > that the referent was other than a rat, at which time the speaker will > say "I told you so". That's usable; you could also bring in "voi", which is the new relative-clause introducer (parallel to "poi" and "noi") that makes a non-actual restriction. > Here's a challenge: a person's name is "Hunter of Butterflies". > Translate into Lojban, preserving the essential feature that the > hunting is restricted to butterflies. In other words, a tanru like > "butterfly hunter" is not sufficient. Bad example; the place structure of "hunt" does the job: la kalte be le toldi [ku] the-one-called "is-a-hunter-of-butterflies" A better example would be somebody named "Blue Bear" vs. a blue somebody named "Bear". Until the latest grammar revision (not yet published, but approved in principle at Logfest), we can contrast these as: la cribe poi blanu [ku] the-one-called "Bear who is blue" vs. la cribe ku poi blanu the-one-called "Bear" who is blue Historically, Loglan/Lojban had only the second possibility, and the "ku" could be omitted. Now we allow relative clauses both outside and inside descriptions, and such distinctions can be made easily. -- John Cowan cowan@snark.thyrsus.com ...!uunet!cbmvax!snark!cowan e'osai ko sarji la lojban.