From @uga.cc.uga.edu:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET Fri Sep 18 09:35:54 1992 Received: from uga.cc.uga.edu by MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Fri, 18 Sep 1992 09:35:52 -0400 Received: from UGA.CC.UGA.EDU by uga.cc.uga.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 3024; Fri, 18 Sep 92 09:34:42 EDT Received: by UGA (Mailer R2.08 PTF008) id 7374; Fri, 18 Sep 92 09:34:40 EDT Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1992 09:33:37 -0400 Reply-To: "Mark E. Shoulson" Sender: Lojban list From: "Mark E. Shoulson" Subject: TECH.QUERY: zo bancu cu mo zo zmadu leka smuni X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Erik Rauch In-Reply-To: "(Logical Language Group)"'s message of Fri, 18 Sep 1992 00:36:47 -0400 Status: RO X-Status: Message-ID: >Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1992 00:36:47 -0400 >From: "(Logical Language Group)" >There are situations where "beyond" is appropriate but where "more than" >is at least confusing. Nora gave me the example "The tree is beyond the >fence". But what is the tree more than? You could say that the tree's >distance from you is more than the fence's distance from you (but if the fence >is an irregular curve, ther emay be parts of the fence that are farther >from you than the tree is, so you have to be careful about wording). Oh. You mean {le tricu cu zmadu le bitmu leni darno}. Why didn't you say so? Is this any less accurate than the same thing with {bancu}? Does it mean anything different at all? >Nora notes that in some sense, all indications of degree are subject to this >argument. Why do we need "less than" since we have "more than"? Does "barda" >have any meaning without something that it is bigger than (JCB argued this >and put the smaller thing in the place structure; we recognized that something >can be recognized as large without necessarily having a particular smaller >thing to be compared with.) Actually, that's one of the things about JCB's Loglan that I thought made a certain amount of sense, though not necessarily absolute sense. Please don't get distracted by the forgoing sentence, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the current method: it also makes a lot of sense. But back to the point. I suppose that "less than" should obviate the need for "more than" just as "go" and "come" are synonyms. Add a little SE and presto. Hrm, actually, that's a stronger argument than I was prepared for: why *do* we need both? But again, that's yet another topic. None of these really addresses the (putative) difference between {zmadu} and {bancu}. They appear to have precisely the same meaning, but for the x3 place, and I (and apparently Colin) have yet to grasp how the x3 place can possibly "not be present." ~mark