From LOJBAN%CUVMB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu Sat Mar 6 22:55:55 2010 Received: from uga.cc.uga.edu by MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Wed, 28 Oct 1992 10:27:11 -0500 Received: from UGA.CC.UGA.EDU by uga.cc.uga.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 6963; Wed, 28 Oct 92 10:24:13 EST Received: by UGA (Mailer R2.08 PTF008) id 9767; Wed, 28 Oct 92 10:24:12 EST Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1992 14:24:35 GMT Reply-To: C.J.Fine@BRADFORD.AC.UK Sender: Lojban list From: C.J.Fine@BRADFORD.AC.UK Subject: Re: TECH: ponse To: Erik Rauch Status: RO X-Status: X-From-Space-Date: Wed Oct 28 14:24:35 1992 X-From-Space-Address: @uga.cc.uga.edu:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET Message-ID: I agree with Mark that 'ponse' is in danger of overuse. Note the definition: ponse pos po'e possess possesses/owns x2 under law/custom x3; (cf. ckini, ralte, jitro, steci, srana, tutra, turni) 5g 188 "law/custom" is part of the definition, and if you don't have one, you're not a ponse. (In case you need to look them up, the other words contrasted are: ckini related ralte retain jitro control steci specific srana pertain tutra territory (controlled by) turne govern) Thus "mi ponse re tuple" unambiguously states that there are two things that are legs which I possess or own under some law or custom. Perhaps we have butchered an animal and are arguing over how to divide it up. The sentence has almost nothing to do with "mi se tuple re da" I say 'almost nothing' because there are a few rare occasions when they can refer to the same things. For example "mi se xadni ti" = "This is my body" "mi ponse ti poi xadni" " I own this body" The last would normally refer to something other than my own body (le xadni be mi) - perhaps the corpse of a relative. But it could so refer in discussing for example civil rights. Colin