From LOJBAN%CUVMB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu Sat Mar 6 22:56:00 2010 Received: from uga.cc.uga.edu by MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Tue, 6 Oct 1992 14:31:39 -0400 Received: from UGA.CC.UGA.EDU by uga.cc.uga.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 8402; Tue, 06 Oct 92 14:30:11 EDT Received: by UGA (Mailer R2.08 PTF008) id 8820; Tue, 06 Oct 92 14:30:10 EDT Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 19:02:23 BST Reply-To: C.J.Fine@BRADFORD.AC.UK Sender: Lojban list From: C.J.Fine@BRADFORD.AC.UK Subject: Re: help? (Todd Crane) To: Erik Rauch Status: RO X-Status: X-From-Space-Date: Tue Oct 6 14:31:39 1992 X-From-Space-Address: @uga.cc.uga.edu:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET Message-ID: Your tanru and lujvo making is right in principle, but I'm not certain it works in detail. ka skami ke ka cenba cartu is a well-formed tanru, but I don't think it means what you want, and it's got some grammatical baggage in it. cenba cartu = varying kind of map ka cenba cartu [kei] = quality of (something being a) varying map (this can go into tanru like a brivla, so the 'ke' you have adds nothing) skami ka cenba cartu = computer kind of quality of varying map ka skami ka cenba cartu = quality of (something being a) computer kind of quality of being a varying map I can't quite get my mind round this, but whatever it is it isn't any kind of map. Your original suggestion is actually closer: skami cenba cartu = (computer kind of varying/variable) kind of map In context, I think it might do quite well. It's a kind of map that varies, the varying having something to do with a computer. If you wanted to get that the varying is done by the computer a bit more clearly, try skami se galfi cartu = (computer kind of (modified [by something]) kind of map. I disagree with you about the "ke": skami ke cenba cartu = computer kind of (varying map) which is certainly what the thing is, but seems to me *less* not more precise. I actually think that your search for a more precise lujvo is misguided. Lujvo have a certain degree of transparency - they are to have one of the plausible meanings of their parent tanru - but, particularly when expressing a complicated and unfamiliar term, they are not the best tool - unless, of course they are already established and in the nu'o dictionary. It's all a matter of clarity and audience. In my Quine paper, I coined some four and five term lujvo, and introduced them with "za'e" as you did (and with "ca'e" as well in some cases). This was acceptible I believe because I needed to refer to them, again, so wanted words I defined them when using them. I think for this process (za'e + new complicated lujvo) to be acceptible, either it must get defined (explicitly or by extension) or the text should be aimed at people who are likely to recognise the concept anyway. Your rafsi manipulation is all correct, as far as I can see, except that you don't need "y" in "-mk-" or "-mc-" (you DO need it after the 4-letter rafsi). Congratulations on "le'avla" - you are quite correct, it does mean "taker word" and is therefore a rather poor lujvo. "selyle'avla" would be much better, but what a mouthful! No, there isn't a lujvo dictionary (anywhere). This is entirely the right place for such question. Keep em coming. kolin