From @YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET Mon Dec 21 18:30:21 1992 Received: from YALEVM.YCC.YALE.EDU by MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Tue, 22 Dec 1992 06:53:30 -0500 Received: from CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU by YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 3743; Tue, 22 Dec 92 06:52:53 EST Received: from CUVMB.BITNET by CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Mailer R2.07) with BSMTP id 6332; Tue, 22 Dec 92 06:52:18 EST Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 18:30:21 +0000 Reply-To: And Rosta Sender: Lojban list From: And Rosta Subject: Re: TECH: se, te, & lujvo X-To: lojban@cuvma.BITNET, Logical Language Group To: Erik Rauch In-Reply-To: (Your message of Sat, 19 Dec 92 14:51:12 EST.) <9212191952.AA31148@link-1.ts.bcc.ac.uk> Status: O X-Status: Message-ID: > le se jerna need not be identical semantically to le seljerna, but it will > probably be close and nearly always interchangeable. I would presume that > if one wanted to be specific that it was money that was earned, you could > add jdini (money) or pegji (pay) to the compound, but given the stylistic > bent people have these days for omitting such info where it is obvious > from context, I can see why people would not. Therefore it is safe to say > that at this point it is not yet clear whether seljerna is limited only to > monetary wages, but that Colin probably does not want the value to be as > broadly construed as "se jerna" might allow. > > In this case, I tend to rely on my English instincts: if what I am translating > is a single word in English, I am more likely to use a seljerna lujvo, whereas > if it takes a phrase to say it in English, and the Lojban isn't exactly a > paragon of trailblazing eloquence, I am more likely to leave the se separate. My point, then, is that either (i) seljerna should be stipulated as synonymous with se jerna (unlike lujvo formed from tanru) or (ii) there ought to be a way of coining a lujvo whose x1 is an idiomatic variant of the x1 of the source gismu (if seljerna has an x1 that is an idiomatic variant of the x2 of the source gismu). ----- And.