From @YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET Tue Jan 5 16:33:19 1993 Received: from YALEVM.YCC.YALE.EDU by MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Tue, 5 Jan 1993 12:46:31 -0500 Received: from CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU by YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 5059; Tue, 05 Jan 93 11:37:17 EST Received: from CUVMB.BITNET by CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Mailer R2.07) with BSMTP id 1223; Tue, 05 Jan 93 11:36:51 EST Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 16:33:19 GMT Reply-To: C.J.Fine@BRADFORD.AC.UK Sender: Lojban list From: C.J.Fine@BRADFORD.AC.UK Subject: Re: TECH: se, te, & lujvo To: Erik Rauch Status: O X-Status: Message-ID: And responds to Bob's answer to And's question about my usage: > > > le se jerna need not be identical semantically to le seljerna, but it will > > probably be close and nearly always interchangeable. I would presume that > > if one wanted to be specific that it was money that was earned, you could > > add jdini (money) or pegji (pay) to the compound, but given the stylistic > > bent people have these days for omitting such info where it is obvious > > from context, I can see why people would not. Therefore it is safe to say > > that at this point it is not yet clear whether seljerna is limited only to > > monetary wages, but that Colin probably does not want the value to be as > > broadly construed as "se jerna" might allow. > > > > In this case, I tend to rely on my English instincts: if what I am translating > > is a single word in English, I am more likely to use a seljerna lujvo, whereas > > if it takes a phrase to say it in English, and the Lojban isn't exactly a > > paragon of trailblazing eloquence, I am more likely to leave the se separate. > > My point, then, is that either > > (i) seljerna should be stipulated as synonymous with se jerna (unlike > lujvo formed from tanru) > > or > > (ii) there ought to be a way of coining a lujvo whose x1 is an idiomatic > variant of the x1 of the source gismu (if seljerna has an x1 that is > an idiomatic variant of the x2 of the source gismu). > > ----- > And. > I do not know what my internal heuristic is for deciding whether to use "se jerna" or "seljerna" forms. I take your point that the lujvo is not in fact formed from a tanru, and therefore the question of which meaning of a tanru the lujvo is to have, does not arise. I use the two forms in fairly free variation, but I believe that a lujvo of this form may have different places from the uncontracted form, and is therefore by definition not synonymous. For your question, how about jerco'e ("earning-kind-of-unspecified-thing' as a tanru - or co'erjerna)? Colin