From @YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET Wed Jan 20 06:26:33 1993 Received: from YALEVM.YCC.YALE.EDU by MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Wed, 20 Jan 1993 17:32:47 -0500 Received: from CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU by YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 2391; Wed, 20 Jan 93 17:31:30 EST Received: from CUVMB.BITNET by CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Mailer R2.07) with BSMTP id 2267; Wed, 20 Jan 93 17:22:58 EST Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 11:26:33 -0500 Reply-To: John Cowan Sender: Lojban list From: John Cowan Subject: Re: JCB on SVO order X-To: Lojban List To: Erik Rauch Status: RO X-Status: Message-ID: la kolin. fain. cusku di'e > In short, a VSO version of Lojban could be created by making two changes > to interpretation, and no changes to syntax, viz: > > 1) In a bridi, the first untagged sumti is always the X1, whether it precedes > or follows the selbri > 2) In a selbri with linkargs, the first untagged sumti is the X2, and the > meaning of the selbri as a tanrypau or selgadrypau is the X1. To specify the > X1 (meaningless in a selgadri), FA must be used. Not really enough. Consider the very common form le prenu poi klama le zarci cu blanu the man who goes to-the store is-blue Under a VSO interpretation, "le zarci" would be the x1 place of "klama", not the x2 place. BTW, this goes literally into 4th-edition Loglan as: le pernu jao godzi le marte ga blanu and so we see that JCB isn't even consistent: within a relative clause, omitting x1 has no imperative sense. > I assume that a bridi which has tagged terms (but not FA) preceding the selbri, > and untagged ones after is still technically an observative, and interpreted > according to the observative rule: > ie > ne'i le purdi ga'a mi mu'i leza'i birti kei preti ta mi > means > In the garden, watched by me, in order to be certain, (something was) > a question about that to me. > rather than > .... that was a question about me. Correct. -- John Cowan cowan@snark.thyrsus.com ...!uunet!cbmvax!snark!cowan e'osai ko sarji la lojban.