From LOJBAN%CUVMB.bitnet@YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU Sat Mar 6 22:44:34 2010 Received: from YALEVM.YCC.YALE.EDU by MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Mon, 8 Feb 1993 17:36:53 -0500 Received: from CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU by YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 3986; Mon, 08 Feb 93 17:35:52 EST Received: from CUVMB.BITNET by CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Mailer R2.07) with BSMTP id 7857; Mon, 08 Feb 93 17:37:22 EST Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1993 10:33:21 -0500 Reply-To: lock60!snark!cowan@GVLS1.VFL.PARAMAX.COM Sender: Lojban list Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was cowan@GVLS1.VFL.PARAMAX.COM From: lock60!snark!cowan@GVLS1.VFL.PARAMAX.COM Subject: Re: Goats' legs and counting X-To: iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk To: Erik Rauch In-Reply-To: <9302080344.AA15222@relay1.UU.NET> from "Ivan A Derzhanski" at Feb 7, 93 02:19:19 pm Status: RO X-Status: X-From-Space-Date: Mon Feb 8 05:33:21 1993 X-From-Space-Address: @YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET Message-ID: <2G2X8tRBMGP.A.AIE.St0kLB@chain.digitalkingdom.org> la'o bylg. Ivan bylg. cusku di'e > If you say that the goat has two legs, what you are saying is that > > > lo'e kanba cu se tuple re da poi tuple -> > > re da poi tuple zo'u lo'e kanba cu se tuple da > > -- `there are two things, restricted to being legs, such that the > typical goat is belegged by them'. Because then there is no way of making claims about exact numeration. We could move to a situation wherein exactness is marked by a cmavo, and the lack of a cmavo means "at least", but to what benefit? The above construction, "re da", means "There exist exactly two things", just as "[su'o] da" means "There exists at least one thing", the classical existential quantifier. We can rewrite the former in terms of the latter as: da de naku di zo'u da nadu de .ije de nadu di .ije da nadu di .ije da .e de .e di cu tuple lo'e remna more or less: There exists an X and a Y , but no Z such that X, Y, and Z are all different and X, Y, and Z are legs of the typical human. > In any case, if I have in mind two > legs by which the goat is belegged, it shouldn't matter whether it is > belegged by something else as well (by two more legs, as it were). It matters because quantification is veridical; it is not associated with in-mind-ness. If you assert that there exist exactly two things which beleg the typical goat, you are precluded from asserting that there are more things as well. -- John Cowan cowan@snark.thyrsus.com ...!uunet!cbmvax!snark!cowan e'osai ko sarji la lojban.