From LOJBAN%CUVMB.bitnet@YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU Sat Mar 6 22:44:35 2010 Received: from YALEVM.YCC.YALE.EDU by MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Sat, 27 Feb 1993 11:46:27 -0500 Received: from CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU by YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 1367; Sat, 27 Feb 93 11:45:59 EST Received: from CUVMB.BITNET by CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Mailer R2.07) with BSMTP id 8319; Sat, 27 Feb 93 11:48:38 EST Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1993 16:45:51 GMT Reply-To: A.D.M.Smith@BRADFORD.AC.UK Sender: Lojban list From: A.D.M.Smith@BRADFORD.AC.UK Subject: Re: Final Gismu Place Structure Review -- Please Comment To: Erik Rauch Status: OR X-From-Space-Date: Sat Feb 27 11:46:28 1993 X-From-Space-Address: @YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET Message-ID: For what it's worth, here are some musings on the proposals put forward: 1 (kubli) Yes 2 (kafke/vamtu) I agree that fart and burp are part of the same gismu, and they should clearly both be 'kafke'. 'vamtu' is a VIOLENT expulsion of digestive tract substances, so 'kalcyvamtu' for 'defecate' (a la Nick) seems wrong to me in most cases . What's wrong with 'kalcyvikmi'? 3 (liste) Yes 4 (bancu) I'm still unconvinced (as are others) that bancu is really necessary at all, as we have 'zmadu' and 'ragve' already. Someone (Cowan?) recently posted an argument about four people sitting round a rectangular table, saying that from the speaker's point of view, all three people are 'bancu' the table, but only the one opposite him is 'ragve' the table. I suggest, however, that all three are 'ragve' the table from his point of view, but in different directions. You can specify these if you want ('zulragve','prityragve'), but whether you do or not, I still think the other people are 'ragve' the table. 5 (banli) There is a difference between 'big' and 'great' but I can't express it very well in my mind. It's something to do with superlatives, extra, special for some reason ... I dunno really, but I agree it needs to be cleared up. 6 (ckafi) Yes 7 (cmoni) Yes 8 (cnisa/tinci) These metaphors seem a bit odd to me, so I'm not sure if this is relevant, but does it matter that 'cnisa' is already a metaphor for 'heavy,malleable)? 9 (dargu/naxle) Yes 10 (kurki) Yes 11 (lenjo) Definitely 12 (fagri) Likewise 13 (jemna) I think we should keep the x2 place as it is : se jemna for something with a jewel in it seems potentially useful to me 14 (jgita/xagri) Yes, of course. What about 'tabra'? Is there an easy way to distinguish brass instruments? 15 (pambe) This seems to be going a bit for to me. It seems fairly essential to me that a pump pumps something, and at least that it's propelled by something, so I'd keep the current x2 and x5 at least, though I wouldn't rule out adding your suggested x2 somewhere. 16 (jalra) Yes 17 (fange) OK 18 (stuzi) As has been pointed out, if 'stuzi' is just ta'e selzva, we might as well bin it altogether. 19 (traji) Yes 20 (kagni) Yes 21 (polno) Yes 22 (rapli) Yes 23 (sakci) Yes 24 (zgike) Yes 25 (taxfu) Agree with the comments others made about the body-part,so x1 is a garment for body part x2 serving purpose x3 seems to be the best idea. 26 (bloti) Yes 27 (farlu) God knows, but probably correct. 28 (macnu) Yes 29 (slaka) OK I think 30 (speni) Definitely - I've often wondered how best to express "girlfriend /partner" and this would explicitly clear up 'speni' for this purpose. 31 All seem Ok except 'sluni' *(garlic). There's already a gismu for garlic, 'sunga', isn't there? There, hope that all makes a bit of sense co'omi'e .andruc.