From LOJBAN%CUVMB.bitnet@YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU Sat Mar 6 22:55:15 2010 Received: from YALEVM.YCC.YALE.EDU by MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Mon, 29 Mar 1993 16:52:39 -0500 Received: from CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU by YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 8439; Mon, 29 Mar 93 16:51:17 EST Received: from CUVMB.BITNET by CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Mailer R2.07) with BSMTP id 3617; Mon, 29 Mar 93 16:52:28 EST Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1993 16:49:52 -0500 Reply-To: Logical Language Group Sender: Lojban list From: Logical Language Group Subject: Re: TECH: grammar updates X-To: C.J.Fine@BRADFORD.AC.UK X-Cc: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Erik Rauch Status: OR X-From-Space-Date: Mon Apr 1 11:49:52 1993 X-From-Space-Address: @YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET Message-ID: I suspect that it will come to be used to mean what it literally means ko'a ne semau ko'e nelci ko'i means that both ko'a and ko'e like ko'i, but that ko'a likes it more. This is the non-restrictive use of semau, and is not rendered unacceptable by anything discussed, nor is it really bad usage. What we have eliminated is a way to use "mau" such that it might imply it to be true of one thing (ko'a) and not of the other (ko'e), which is the colloquial extension that is commonly assumed. I suspect that we will have quite a bit of work to try to get people to avoid this usage with "ne" or "pe", given that there is no Zipfean alternative. We have a chance with sumti-raising primarily BECAUSE we introduced an alternative that was as short as possible (thus catering to Zipf) and not much longer than the alternative, while conveying the much refined set of meanings. I have never urged that the "ne" meaning be suppressed or subsumed under the less "logical" meaning, but rather that we have a Zipfeanly short alternative so that we can put the two phrasings up against each other and people can clearly see what the logical differences are between them and the implicvations thereof. If indeed the non-logical "semau" can always be reasonable expressed some other short way, then it will be and the addition to the language will see little use. Otherwise, at least we will have the distinction in the language that causes people to remember that they need to think about the problem before speaking. lojbab