From @YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET Thu Mar 25 18:49:53 1993 Received: from YALEVM.YCC.YALE.EDU by MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Thu, 25 Mar 1993 23:52:39 -0500 Received: from CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU by YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 3557; Thu, 25 Mar 93 23:51:22 EST Received: from CUVMB.BITNET by CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Mailer R2.07) with BSMTP id 4236; Thu, 25 Mar 93 23:52:39 EST Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1993 23:49:53 -0500 Reply-To: Logical Language Group Sender: Lojban list From: Logical Language Group Subject: Re: TECH: grammar updates X-To: cowan@SNARK.THYRSUS.COM X-Cc: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Erik Rauch Message-ID: Not thinking much as I respond (as often): the historical allowance or not-allowance of SE+BAI I think is irrelevant to the question of mo'u, except insofar as it may IMPLY that there is a two place relationship when there is not. After all, old Loglan had cmavo corresponding to semau and several others of the se+BAI or te+BAI or ... sort - they just were single cmavo, and you had to remember from the memory hook which ONE place was the tagged sumti. Thus a single cmavo "mou" means the same as "semau" in the TLI versions of the language. We added the "se"s to make the memory hooksto the brivla more explicit, and to incidentally allow the compression of words or expansion of possibilities implied by being able to use bai and sebai (though usually this is irrelevant because in most cases, only 1 of the places associated with the memory hook brivla is actually useful. In any event, your argument would answer only the issue of a BAI-based "mo'u", whereas there is also the secondary issue of a "mo'u that would join a brivla/selbri (and hence be a mo'u equivalent of noi/poi?), . I don't think this is as badly needed, but is the obvious answer to your objection: if a BAI takes only 1 place then you shoul be able to get more places in with a full relative clause. Still, I suspect that you are right and whatever was important about the original version of mo'u in the draft textbook has been determined illogical or moot. lojbab