From LOJBAN%CUVMB.bitnet@YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU Sat Mar 6 22:55:06 2010 Received: from YALEVM.YCC.YALE.EDU by MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Fri, 26 Mar 1993 11:33:27 -0500 Received: from CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU by YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 5915; Fri, 26 Mar 93 11:32:01 EST Received: from CUVMB.BITNET by CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Mailer R2.07) with BSMTP id 7324; Fri, 26 Mar 93 11:32:55 EST Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1993 15:35:10 GMT Reply-To: C.J.Fine@BRADFORD.AC.UK Sender: Lojban list From: C.J.Fine@BRADFORD.AC.UK Subject: Re: TECH: grammar updates To: Erik Rauch X-From-Space-Date: Fri Mar 26 15:35:10 1993 X-From-Space-Address: @YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET Message-ID: Further observations on John Cowan's excellent list of changes. > Nick's declefter is now also part of the grammar: it does not have its own > cmavo, but is signalled by "jai" without a following tense or modal, thus > keeping the close link between "jai" and "fai". Its effect is to take the > abstraction normally falling into the x1 place of the selbri and move it > to the extra "fai" place; the new x1 place is one of the places of the > subordinate bridi within the abstraction. (If x1 is not an abstraction, > "jai" is ill-formed). Exactly which place is chosen is unspecified, so > "jai" may be equivalent to "jai gau" or to something else. Example: > > 5) le nu mi catra la djim. cu jenca la djein. > The event-of my killing Jim shocks Jane. > > becomes: > > 6) mi jai jenca la djein. fai le nu [mi] catra la djim. > I shock Jane by the event-of [my] killing Jim. > > Here "jai gau" would do as well and be more specific, but this is not always > so. If the abstraction to be thus manipulated is not in x1, use "jai SE" > to get it there. It seems to me then that da jai broda is equivalent to tu'a da broda je'upei ta'o I had always read 'jenca' as meaning a physical shock, not an emotional one. It's a bit like 'sarji' which has long been used in both a figurative and a literal sense. (cf your mail footer) > 7) le su'u la .iecuas. kuctra selcatra KEI ^^^ > be lo salpydizyfa'a ke nalmatma'e sutryterjvi > the abstract-nature-of (Jesus is-an-intersect-shape type-of-killed-one ) > of-type a slope-low-direction type-of non-motor-vehicle > speed-competition > The Crucifixion of Jesus Considered As A Downhill Bicycle Race > mi'e kolin