From @YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET Wed Mar 17 11:40:01 1993 Received: from YALEVM.YCC.YALE.EDU by MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Wed, 17 Mar 1993 06:48:17 -0500 Received: from CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU by YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 6437; Wed, 17 Mar 93 06:47:09 EST Received: from CUVMB.BITNET by CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Mailer R2.07) with BSMTP id 7429; Wed, 17 Mar 93 06:48:17 EST Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1993 11:40:01 GMT Reply-To: C.J.Fine@BRADFORD.AC.UK Sender: Lojban list From: C.J.Fine@BRADFORD.AC.UK Subject: Re: phonetic irregularity To: Erik Rauch Status: O Message-ID: > From: William Stuart-smith > > lojbab: > > The Lojban 'o' is intended to be a pure vowel, and not the diphthong > > of "doe". > > >From lojban/pronounc.unf: > > uo /wo/ as in "woe" > > I find these mutually inconsistent. Where I come from, the words rhyme ('dyu' > and 'uyu' respectively, if I have these vowels right), and I can't imagine > them sounding as different as you (lojbab) imply. > > uil > At least part of the problem is pe'i British versus American. When Chris Dollin first introduced me to Loglan in about 1978, he pronounced the word 'gotso' (= lojban 'klama') approximately /gyutsyu/ just as Wil says. This is the problem of trying to convey phonetics by using (one dialect) of a widespread language. (I spent years mispronouncing Finnish because Eliot's grammar said that a" was pronounced like a in English 'hat' and I had forgotten that the former received pronunciation (now definitely marked as old-fashioned or aristocratic) was a definitely fronted low vowel rather than the mid-front low vowel that is now the normal southern English pronunciation). Received English pronunciation of /o:/ is indeed diphthongal /@u/ (lojban /yu/), but most American pronunciation is either monophthongal, or if it is diphthongal the first element is a definitely rounded /o/. If it will help, Wil, think of an Irish pronunciation of 'doe' - though even that may have a hint of a diphthong /ou/. Colin