From @YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET Mon Apr 1 11:40:18 1993 Received: from YALEVM.YCC.YALE.EDU by MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Mon, 29 Mar 1993 16:43:27 -0500 Received: from CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU by YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 8370; Mon, 29 Mar 93 16:42:08 EST Received: from CUVMB.BITNET by CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Mailer R2.07) with BSMTP id 3530; Mon, 29 Mar 93 16:43:05 EST Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1993 16:40:18 -0500 Reply-To: Logical Language Group Sender: Lojban list From: Logical Language Group Subject: Re: TECH: grammar updates X-To: C.J.Fine@BRADFORD.AC.UK X-Cc: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Erik Rauch Status: OR Message-ID: Your interpretation is correct and yet backwards. Meanings of gismu have all been intentionally broadened throughout the gismu list. The intent was that gismu be broad and rather nebulous, with the constraints being primarily those indicated by the place structures (though obviously some additional semantic definitions must be added). The more constrained meaning should be expressed in a lujvo. It is far easier to clearly restrict metaphorical scope in a tanru or lujvo, than to extend that scope in only a limited way by such mechanisms. Also, by using the broadest definitions, we are hoping to discourage people from broadening the definitions still further, as has happened with the metaphorical extension of English. The main backstop for this discouragement is, again, the place structrues: if your metaphorical extension doesn't fit the place structure, it isn't acceptable. If it does, it probably is. The compromise dates from the making of the new gismu list, and was directly the result of the disputes between minimalists who wanted as few as possible gismu and those who wanted to be sure there was full semantic coverage, even at the extent of considerable redundancy if it happened. I sided with the latter and was outvoted (not to mention that my principle opponent was Tommy Whitlock, who was doing the Hindi and Arabic; we haven't had very good gismu making since the dispute, because Tommy refused to support adding any more gismu, and we never found another volunteer). lojbab