From LOJBAN%CUVMB.bitnet@YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU Sat Mar 6 22:54:39 2010 Received: from YALEVM.YCC.YALE.EDU by MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Mon, 29 Mar 1993 05:45:27 -0500 Received: from CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU by YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 4909; Mon, 29 Mar 93 05:44:08 EST Received: from CUVMB.BITNET by CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Mailer R2.07) with BSMTP id 8705; Mon, 29 Mar 93 05:45:28 EST Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1993 11:45:12 BST Reply-To: C.J.Fine@BRADFORD.AC.UK Sender: Lojban list From: C.J.Fine@BRADFORD.AC.UK Subject: Re: TECH: grammar updates To: Erik Rauch Status: OR X-From-Space-Date: Mon Mar 29 05:45:27 1993 X-From-Space-Address: @YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET Message-ID: > > ta'o I had always read 'jenca' as meaning a physical shock, not an emotional > > one. > > I'm not sure that this is a genuine difference. In some ways, what happens > to an organism when too much current passes through it is not that different > from what happens to a (sentient) organism when it hears bad news -- > both are "physical". I take it that the essential point is that x2 be > an organism and not a wall or whatnot. No, that's not what I meant. I think any physically organised system can be physically shocked - an organism, a piece of equipment, a house of cards, a wall - and whether the result is devastation or not depends on the nature of the system and the shock. An electric shock applied to an organism is to me a borderline application of this - I would be much happier to see a lujvo. An emotional (or intellectual) 'shock' seems to me to be a distinctly metaphorical usage, and should be expressed by a tanru or lujvo. > > > It's a bit like 'sarji' which has long been used in both a figurative and > > a literal sense. (cf your mail footer) > > Here the difference is probably in the x3 place. The force against which > Lojban is being supported is indifference (or the like) rather than gravity. I recognise that the definition in the latest gimste allows that interpretation. I think this is a mistake, again broadening a physical concept to include a metaphorical extension (and I am further suspicious that this has been done chiefly to legitimise 'ko sarji la lojban.'). Colin > > > > 7) le su'u la .iecuas. kuctra selcatra > > KEI > > Woops. > > -- > John Cowan cowan@snark.thyrsus.com ...!uunet!lock60!snark!cowan > e'osai ko sarji la lojban. >