From LOJBAN%CUVMB.bitnet@YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU Sat Mar 6 22:52:20 2010 Received: from YALEVM.YCC.YALE.EDU by MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Fri, 9 Apr 1993 03:29:59 -0400 Received: from CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU by YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 8590; Fri, 09 Apr 93 03:29:49 EDT Received: from CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU by CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Mailer R2.07) with BSMTP id 2131; Fri, 09 Apr 93 03:30:24 EST Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1993 17:27:41 +1000 Reply-To: Nick Nicholas Sender: Lojban list From: Nick Nicholas Subject: Re: TEXT.REV: le noraixli nega'u le dembi ge'uku xici X-To: C.J.Fine@BRADFORD.AC.UK X-Cc: Lojban Mailing List To: Erik Rauch In-Reply-To: <9304010524.AA22467@murlibobo.ee.mu.OZ.AU> from "C.J.Fine@BRADFORD.AC.UK" at Mar 30, 93 11:44:55 pm Status: OR X-From-Space-Date: Sat Apr 10 03:27:41 1993 X-From-Space-Address: @YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET Message-ID: Sorry I didn't get around to this sooner, but I've been busy. That's busy, as opposed to productive *sigh*. }gi'e sisku pa go'i .iku'i roroi nabmi .i sa'e ge lo nolraixli cu }raumei ju'o gi loniri nolraixli ku ko'a na se birti .uu .i roroiku }le no'e drani vau Hm. Because I equate the referent of {lo nolraixli} with the earlier one in the tale (He seeks a princess), this sounds like "the princess is enough". But of course, the lojban doesn't say that at all; nolraixli is quantified afresh here. Still, might it not make more sense to say {raumei lo nolraixli} or {loi nolraixli cu raumei}? I don't recall the place structure of {mei} right now. And I'd have said {roroiku da no'e drani} (note that, for quantification, the roroiku has to go before the da, else we assert that there is one thing *always* awry, rather than one thing *each* time. (We do need a quantification paper badly). }.i ri selkecmlu .uuse'inai ri'a tu'a lo carvi .ebo lo xlali viltcima I didn't realise you could do that with {.ebo}; I'd always used lu'i... }se sezycu'u Is this new rafsi assignment? Certainly in the old rafsi list, cu'u means worm, not cusku (most frequent rafsi error). }ni'o co'i le cerni cu preti fofo'a feleli'i fo'a capu sipna ge'ekau This remains a clever use of {kau}, and should get mentioned in any write-up about it. Btw, from my reading, it does seem that lambda calculus is the best way to explain {kau}. For those unfamiliar with it: lambda calculus explains maths at a deep level. LAMBDA(x.x+x) is the function taking x as an argument and returning x+x. Lambda(x.x+x) 1 is a function application to 1, and evaluates to 2. The lambda expression itself is a function waiting for an argument. Lojban selbri aren't lambda fns; their arguments are filled with zo'e, or explicit values. In "I know who did it", though, the predicate "did it" is crying out for an argument to fill in x1: (LAMBDA zo'ekau.zo'ekau gasnu ri). For that matter, a lot of the elliptical places, as John has mentioned, get explained by it: Being a parent is difficult --- not being a parent of John, or of Mary, but (LAMBDA zo'ekau.mi rirni zo'ekau). End digression. }.i mi su'eso'uroi .uu ganga'i le kanla ca'o piro le nicte .i ma? za'anai }pausai nenri le ckana I still don't like {ganga'i}, but that's a matter of taste. I rather like the {za'anai pausai}. }.i seni'ibo co'i djuno ledu'u fo'a nolraixli je'a mulno ki'u lenu fo'a fi le ^ KEI Her feeling the pea does not cause her to be a princess, but causes them to know it. }ledu'u vo'a kansa le mulno beloka nolraixli .i le dembi ba se punji }fi la larkumfa tosa'a remoi pinka toi .i caji'a go'i I don't know about {go'i} --- what is true now is that the pea remains there, not that it is still being placed there. I'll come out in favour of Colin's story more strongly than I did at the same time last year; it's quite fluent and readable, and entirely ready for publication. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Nick S. Nicholas, "Rode like foam on the river of pity CogSci & CompSci student, Turned its tide to strength University of Melbourne, Australia. Healed the hole that ripped in living" nsn@{munagin.ee|mundil.cs}.mu.oz.au - Suzanne Vega, Book Of Dreams ______________________________________________________________________________