From LOJBAN%CUVMB.bitnet@YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU Sat Mar 6 22:51:38 2010 Received: from YALEVM.YCC.YALE.EDU by MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Mon, 10 May 1993 05:08:15 -0400 Received: from CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU by YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 7329; Mon, 10 May 93 05:07:42 EDT Received: from CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU by CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Mailer R2.07) with BSMTP id 8434; Mon, 10 May 93 05:08:44 EST Date: Mon, 10 May 1993 09:57:56 +0100 Reply-To: Colin Fine Sender: Lojban list From: Colin Fine Subject: Re: xo'e and noda To: Erik Rauch X-From-Space-Date: Mon May 10 10:57:56 1993 X-From-Space-Address: @YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET Message-ID: <_ny2kHtR8TC.A.i2H.6z0kLB@chain.digitalkingdom.org> cu'u la lojbab --------------- There is a significant different between these two words/concepts, based on the logical foundation of the language. (Regardless of which place of zbasu you are trying to eliminate - which I think we need to agree on since the error is causing confusion - I will presume the "maker" place, which is x1, since that is what caused the original confusion). ----------------- I believe it was I that caused that confusion, subsequently corrected by Iain, but still apparently around. I was indeed thinking of removing the 'maker' place zbasu faxo'e but erroneously produced a form with xo'e in the x3. Bob's analysis of 'noda' is very welcome, and reminds us of something we were forgetting. It is clear that xo'e means something very different from 'noda' - it is closer to "na'eroda" but still not the same. I am still very suspicious of xo'e - Richard Shroeder's examples (discussed by Lojbab) illustrate precisely the danger - but I have a clearer understanding now of what it means. It is just that, like Bob, I can't get my head round what specific examples of it mean. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Going though the fear is strong, | Colin Fine Going with your knees a-quake, | Dept of Computing Maybe something you've been wanting | University of Bradford for so long, | Bradford, W. Yorks, England And never dared take. | BD7 1DP You don't have to get yourself ready, | Tel: 0274 733680 (h), 383915 (w) or conquer your fear, | But just welcome the moment, | do se cinri pei? lo rutni bangu And say Yes to the moment, | ('Are you interested in artificial and the Moment is here! | languages?' in Lojban) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^