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Date:         Wed, 26 May 1993 00:15:07 EDT
Reply-To: Logical Language Group <lojbab@GREBYN.COM>
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From: Logical Language Group <lojbab@GREBYN.COM>
Subject:      TECH: non-specific SE - repost for Colin
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To: Erik Rauch <erikr@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU>
Status: O
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Message-ID: <DeHWxbv_MHI.A.g3H.9z0kLB@chain.digitalkingdom.org>

Colin answered by comment on non-specific SE privately by accident, and
asked me to repost for him:

>Date: Wed, 12 May 1993 10:31:57 +0100
>From: Colin Fine <C.J.Fine@bradford.ac.uk>
>To: Logical Language Group <lojbab@grebyn.com>
>Subject: Re: non-specific SE
>
>The only use I had in mind for a non-specific SE was to talk about more than
>one place at a time, specifically,
>
>        the arms of a conjunction       = *le sejate kanxe
>
>        the parts of a tanru            = *le sejate tanru
>
>using your proposal.
>
>But I did think about the more general possibilities of a truly
>non-specific place
>
>        le *xe'e klama  = something involved in a going
>
>But I have been persuaded that my original suggestion is not a good
>idea.  First, if you really want it, you've got "jaido'e".  Secondly,
>the examples above critically want to refer to more than one place at a
>time, whereas this suggestion really only makes sense for a single
>non-specific place.
>
>It occurs to me there may be another approach.  What I'm really trying
>to do is to massify a pair of places.  This is another sort of
>unclefting, that has been specifically done in several gismu.
>
>We now have several ways of handling cleft/uncleft structures with
>raised sumti, viz
>
>        lenu mi catke cu kalri'a le vorme
>
>        tu'a mi kalri'a le vorme
>
>        mi jai kalri'a le vorme (the newest form)
>
>I wonder if we want similar arrangements for joint sumti, ie something that
>would convert
>
>        mi jo'u do casnu le sidbo
>
>to a form with do as a separate place of casnu,
>
>        mi *xe'u casnu do le sidbo
>
>and conversely a converter that would condense two places, turning
>
>        mi tavla do
>
>into
>
>        mi jo'u do *xe'o tavla
>
>and
>
>        le se tanru beko'a jo'u le te tanru befiko'a
>
>into
>
>        *le sexe'o tanru beko'a
>
>As will be obvious, I haven't thought this out very carefully yet.
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Going though the fear is strong,       | Colin Fine
>Going with your knees a-quake,         |  Dept of Computing
>Maybe something you've been wanting    |   University of Bradford
>                for so long,           |    Bradford, W. Yorks, England
>And never dared take.                  |      BD7 1DP
>You don't have to get yourself ready,  | Tel: 0274 733680 (h), 383915 (w)
>                or conquer your fear,  |
>But just welcome the moment,           |  do se cinri pei? lo rutni bangu
>And say Yes to the moment,             |  ('Are you interested in artificial
>and the Moment is here!                |        languages?' in Lojban)
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

lojbab