From @YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET Thu May 27 06:18:10 1993 Received: from YALEVM.YCC.YALE.EDU by MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Fri, 28 May 1993 02:42:04 -0400 Received: from CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU by YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 8597; Fri, 28 May 93 02:41:14 EDT Received: from CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU by CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Mailer R2.07) with BSMTP id 2377; Fri, 28 May 93 02:42:28 EDT Date: Thu, 27 May 1993 10:18:10 -0400 Reply-To: John Cowan Sender: Lojban list From: John Cowan Subject: Re: how to say X-To: Lojban List To: Erik Rauch In-Reply-To: <9305270216.AA07190@relay1.UU.NET> from "fschulz@pyramid.com" at May 26, 93 03:35:23 pm Status: RO X-Status: Message-ID: la frank. cults. cusku di'e > pa'o is a FAhA derived from pagre. I know fi'o converts a gismu > into a BAI. Is there a cmavo to convert gismu to FAhA? Formally, no. However, BAI can do anything FAhA can (except participate in the construction of complex tenses), so "fi'o" effectively does the job. > Does > mi catlu fi'o canko ku le canko > have the right semantics? Probably not. Can predications take place within > windows? Again, ku is probably not the right terminator for fi'o. Well, that says "I look-at [something] with-window the window", and sounds a tad redundant, but it isn't formally incorrect, except for the "ku"; the delimiter for "fi'o" is "fe'u", which can be elided here. You can also say: mi catlu fi'o canko [fe'u] [ku] which has both "fe'u" (terminating "fi'o") and "ku" (which is used when no sumti follows), both elidable here by the end-of-text. But what all these versions lose is that seeing is done >through< the window; the window is involved in the seeing in some way, but what way is simply not given. This is inherent in the nature of modal places -- we don't really know, and have to infer, how the modal place fits in. In the paradigm sentence mi viska do fi'o kanla ti I see you with-eye this-thing. I see you with this eye. which would be appropriate for someone who (unknown to the listener) is blind in one eye, it is only real-world knowledge that informs us of the function of the eye in seeing. -- John Cowan cowan@snark.thyrsus.com ...!uunet!lock60!snark!cowan e'osai ko sarji la lojban.