From @YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET Fri May 28 03:26:25 1993 Received: from YALEVM.YCC.YALE.EDU by MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Fri, 28 May 1993 13:26:39 -0400 Received: from CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU by YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 1546; Fri, 28 May 93 13:25:48 EDT Received: from CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU by CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Mailer R2.07) with BSMTP id 5666; Fri, 28 May 93 13:27:04 EDT Date: Fri, 28 May 1993 10:26:25 -0700 Reply-To: jimc@MATH.UCLA.EDU Sender: Lojban list From: jimc@MATH.UCLA.EDU Subject: Re: easy text X-To: lojban@cuvmb.columbia.edu To: Erik Rauch In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 27 May 93 17:45:54 PDT." <9305280125.AA00729@julia.math.ucla.edu> Status: RO X-Status: Message-ID: fschulz@PYRAMID.COM sends out an easy text which I can actually read, with gismu list lookups (aaah, the wonder of computers!) It's good! Here are my nitpick comments: > .i zo lump cmene le cmalu mlatu > .i zo mus cmene le barda mlatu I anxiously await comments on how authoritative "le cmalu mlatu" is, that is, whether it means exactly the same as "le mlatu poi cmalu" (not likely), or is a metaphor along the lines of "broken heart", or whether you have to kind of guess which cat is referred to. The latter procedure is commonly referred to as "using common sense", something a computer language interpreter has little of. > .i le nu le mlatu cu cliva le mi zdani cu se fanta Stylistically, it's better to put the main predicate early in the sentence, e.g. "fanta fe le nu ... cliva ..." I believe that as written this is an observative, but I can't remember what wriggling is needed to de-observatize it. > .i lo civla cu bartu le mi zdani It looks like we have no gismu for "infest", "infect", or even "habitat". > .i mi to'e djica le nu lo civla cu klama le mi zdani fu le mlatu Suggestion: nerkla = come into. > .i mi te vecnu lo mlatu salta tanxe (cat salad) box: Cat salad is like chicken salad, and the box presumably helps you cook it. I hate tanru. > ... .i le re mlatu cu citka le srasu > .i le barda mlatu cu xekri joi blabi... Time for a paragraph mark ni'o (new topic). By the way, I thought you asserted that the cats were prevented from living in your house (pragmatically implying that they in fact don't live there), while you really mean that subsequent discourse (the ten sentences or so about cat salad) tells a workaround which prevents the undesired result of the cats not living in your house. I'm not sure how to express this right in Lojban. > .i le mlatu na kakne le nu rorci I don't have "rorci" on my list. Closest I can come is jbena = born. Maybe my list is old. > .i le mlatu cu to'e nelci le nu vitke le danlu mikce A. Who is the guest? Obviously it's the cat, but I would like to see rules to govern this interpretation, not vague common sense. B. I'm not sure of "guest" as the predicate. "le mlatu cu se mikce le danlu mikce" is semantically better, but because it repeats "mikce" the sentence is ugly. > .i mi bevri le mlatu poi nenri le mlatu bevri tanxe ku'o le danlu mikce Probably you want "noi" (supplementary subordinate clause) rather than "poi" (restrictive clause). What you actually said was "among the cats, pick the one in the box; that's the one I carry." Also, this section I think needs a long scope "habitual" tense, but I've lost track of how to say that. Without it, you focus on one or a few specific instances. > .i mi na djica le nu le mlatu cu krici le nu > le nu nenri le karce cu nibli le nu vitke le danlu mikce This sentence is complicated, but is well constructed, and all parts are needed. I think "nibli" is not quite right, being (I think) for things like theorems and logic. I would use "zi se balvi" (future) or "zi purci" (past), waffling on the causal connection, which cats can't comprehend. You can use "zi" (short interval) alone like this, can't you? > .i le mlatu cu catlu fi'o farna pagre [fe'u] le canko So that's why you asked that particular question! "fe'u" would go after "le canko" because you want the clause to include it, and being terminal, "fe'u" could be elided. The story has interesting and cute content, and as far as I can see the Lojban is very good. James F. Carter Voice 310 825 2897 FAX 310 206 6673 UCLA-Mathnet; 6221 MSA; 405 Hilgard Ave.; Los Angeles, CA, USA 90024-1555 Internet: jimc@math.ucla.edu BITNET: jimc%math.ucla.edu@INTERBIT UUCP:...!{ucsd,ames,ncar,gatech,purdue,rutgers,decvax,uunet}!math.ucla.edu!jimc