From @YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET Sat May 29 11:10:36 1993 Received: from YALEVM.YCC.YALE.EDU by MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Sat, 29 May 1993 15:13:24 -0400 Received: from CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU by YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 4975; Sat, 29 May 93 15:12:25 EDT Received: from CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU by CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Mailer R2.07) with BSMTP id 1913; Sat, 29 May 93 15:13:40 EDT Date: Sat, 29 May 1993 15:10:36 EDT Reply-To: bob@gnu.ai.mit.edu Sender: Lojban list Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was bob@GRACKLE.STOCKBRIDGE.MA.US From: bob@GNU.AI.MIT.EDU Subject: look thru window X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu, bob@grackle.stockbridge.ma.us To: Erik Rauch In-Reply-To: fschulz@pyramid.com's message of Sat, 29 May 1993 09:49:27 PDT <9305291729.AA17331@albert.gnu.ai.mit.edu> Status: O X-Status: Message-ID: <9H6z1RkQVuI.A.K9H.R00kLB@chain.digitalkingdom.org> > Incidentally, I'm not convinced that "catlu" is right here > anyway. "catlu" means 'look at/examine something'. To me "I > looked through the window" is not the same predicate as "I looked > at something through the window." Comments anybody? I agree. When I look through the window at the field, I am usually observing. (Here I am using `through' in the sense that my line of sight goes through the window, not that I am look `by means of the window'.) "zgana" is better than "catlu" or "viska": zgana zga observe + see(observe) x1 observes x2 using senses/means x3 under conditions x4 catlu cta look x1 looks at x2 viska vis vi'a see vision x1 sees x2 under conditions x3 Also, jimc@math.ucla.edu made the point that you or other semantic analyser can more easily get a grip on the meaning of an utterance when predicates are used to express the relations. How about this: mi zgana lo foldi be lo srasu be'o lo mi kanla lo za'i pa'o canko I look at the field of grass with my eyes through the window. (Or does the fourth place, "lo za'i pa'o canko", translate as `a continuous state of the window passing through' rather than `a continuous state of the observation passing through window'?) foldi fol foi field + expanse-of x1 is a field (shape/form) of material x2; x1 is a broad uniform expanse of x2 srasu sau grass x1 is a blade/expanse of grass of species x2 kanla kal eye ocular x1 is a/the eye (body-part) of x2 za'i NU state abstract abstractor: state (event) abstractor; x1 is continuous state of [bridi] being true pa'o FAhA passing through location tense relation/direction; transfixing/passing through ... ; direction modal canko ca'o window x1 is a window of building/structure x2 pagre gre pass through x1 passes through barrier/medium x2 to x3 from x4 Robert J. Chassell bob@gnu.ai.mit.edu Rattlesnake Mountain Road (413) 298-4725 Stockbridge, MA 01262-0693 USA