From @YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET Thu May 27 06:40:53 1993 Received: from YALEVM.YCC.YALE.EDU by MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Thu, 27 May 1993 14:46:22 -0400 Received: from CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU by YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 6027; Thu, 27 May 93 14:45:32 EDT Received: from CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU by CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Mailer R2.07) with BSMTP id 7854; Thu, 27 May 93 14:46:46 EDT Date: Thu, 27 May 1993 12:40:53 MDT Reply-To: Rick Morneau Sender: Lojban list From: Rick Morneau Subject: Re: how to say X-To: Lojban list To: Erik Rauch Status: O X-Status: Message-ID: I am not a Lojbanist, so pardon me if what I say makes no sense in the context of Lojban. It seems to me that, in the sentence "I look through the window", the agent "I" is really using the window as an instrument. Consider a similar sentence: I looked at the crowd through/with/using a telescope. Obviously, "with" must be used in its instrumental sense, rather than in its other English senses (accompaniment, manner, etc). Thus, I think the proper way to translate the original sentence would be as if you were trying to say: I look using the window. or I look with the window. The French equivalent is instructive: Je regarde par la fenetre. I look by the window where "par=by" has more of the flavor of the English "via" or "by means of". I realize that the instrumental interpretation does not precisely capture the sense of English "through", although it is very close. However, I long ago gave up trying to come up with EXACT translations between different languages. If you develop a conlang that can precisely capture all the subtleties of your native language, then all you'll succeed in doing is to create a clone of your native language. The best you can hope for is to make your conlang as flexible as possible so that it can capture as many subtleties as possible. Just a thought from a normally quiet observer. Regards, Rick -- *=*= Disclaimer: The INEL does not speak for me and vice versa =*=* = Rick Morneau Idaho National Engineering Laboratory = * mnu@inel.gov Idaho Falls, Idaho 83415, USA * =*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*= NeXT Mail accepted here! *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=