From LOJBAN%CUVMB.bitnet@YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU Sat Mar 6 22:51:44 2010 Received: from YALEVM.YCC.YALE.EDU by MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Fri, 28 May 1993 10:28:25 -0400 Received: from CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU by YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 9883; Fri, 28 May 93 10:26:37 EDT Received: from CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU by CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Mailer R2.07) with BSMTP id 3868; Fri, 28 May 93 10:18:03 EDT Date: Fri, 28 May 1993 15:16:38 +0100 Reply-To: ucleaar@UCL.AC.UK Sender: Lojban list From: Mr Andrew Rosta Subject: Re: TECH: Figurative speech: a minor change proposal X-To: lojban@cuvma.BITNET, John Cowan To: Erik Rauch In-Reply-To: (Your message of Wed, 26 May 93 17:15:44 D.) <9305262206.AA20438@link-1.ts.bcc.ac.uk> Status: RO X-Status: X-From-Space-Date: Fri May 28 16:16:38 1993 X-From-Space-Address: @YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET Message-ID: John Cowan writes: > The proposal is to abandon this grammatical separation, and make both "pe'a" > and "po'a" regular members of UI. The intention is to then separate them > semantically. "pe'a" would be assigned to poetic metaphor, whereas "po'a" > would be used for semantic extension. > > All UI cmavo can be negated with "-nai", giving a polar negation. "pe'anai" > would mean "literal no matter how absurd", and "po'anai" would mean > "a semantic restriction even though it looks like an extension". > > In addition, both "pe'a" and "po'a" would be given rafsi, -pev- and -pov- > respectively, to allow the creation of figurative lujvo. A lujvo beginning > with pev- might have a totally erratic place structure. > > Comments? This is a most appealing idea. But I'm not sure that incorporating these into lujvo is quite the right strategy: once a lujvo is learnt & commited to memory one would have no need for these rafsi. Rather, I would advocate a method of getting these cmavo to apply to lujvo in 2 ways: i. in the same way as they apply to gismu, or any other word (i.e. normal way) ii. as if the lujvo were expanded into a tanru, so that pe'a and po'a become comments on the aptness of the component rafsi (especially the word-final one) to the actual sense of the lujvo. (ii) might be used when teaching the standard grammatical term "lebyvalsi", for example, since although the meaning is fixed, & is usually used literally, the component rafsi (specifically, the first) is a bit on the counterintuitive side. ---- And.