From LOJBAN%CUVMB.bitnet@YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU Sat Mar 6 22:44:37 2010 Received: from YALEVM.YCC.YALE.EDU by MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Wed, 2 Jun 1993 07:40:21 -0400 Received: from CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU by YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 5566; Wed, 02 Jun 93 07:39:26 EDT Received: from CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU by CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Mailer R2.07) with BSMTP id 8654; Wed, 02 Jun 93 07:40:45 EDT Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1993 21:38:36 +1000 Reply-To: Nick Nicholas Sender: Lojban list From: Nick Nicholas Subject: Re: TECH: pe'a/po'a proposal X-To: lojbab@GREBYN.COM X-Cc: Lojban Mailing List To: Erik Rauch In-Reply-To: from "Logical Language Group" at Jun 2, 93 00:16:50 am Status: RO X-Status: X-From-Space-Date: Thu Jun 3 07:38:36 1993 X-From-Space-Address: @YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET Message-ID: The Seraphim surely rejoiced when Logical Language Group spoke thus: }Notwiuthstanding this, I prefer that Lojban tanru and lujvo usually be }regular where possible. I do not therefore agree with Nick that balvi-speni }is not a kind of speni (remember that Lojban predicates are timeless and }potential, and hence a future speni is a speni all the same); if it is NOT }to be seen as a kind of speni, the speaker SHOULD use spenybalvi and reverse }the order. I also see blari'o (bluish-green) as a distinct color from }crinyblanu (greenish-blue), and within the realm of a restriction of green. }I will hope that blanu joi crino gets lujv-ized into a separate word than }the restrictive versions. (I note that in English we DO make a distinction }betwween bluish green and greenish blue - anyone with kids and Crayola crayons }knows this %^). Well, yet again I'm too strapped for time to provide examples *sigh*, but I think noone will be surprised to hear that a whole lot of lujvo have indeed been constructed the way I suggest, and that getting people to mark their lujvo explicitly is a lost cause. I think blari'o is a case in point: how many here would be disinclined to regard it as a 50-50 mix? I'm not. And remember, bluish green is only one translation of blanu crino; blue-green (ambiguous in itself, but not ruling out cyan) is another. There are abundant cases in which the head of the Gismu Deep Structure turns out to be a modifier in the actual lujvo {simdarxi}, for example, is not a darxi as much as a simxu: A & By hit each other. A darxi By .ije By darxi A. A ce By simxu lenu da darxi de .i A ce By simdarxi. I'm sure this happens not just with place structure, but with semantics as well. Another case in point: the location of {mintu} in a tanru. Due to NL influence we often put it first, thus synonym: mitsmu. But properly, it is the head: smumi'u. Anyway, I'm meandering. All I can say is that lujvo making is going to be a nebulous, NL-influenced activity, and Lojbab's desire for non-restrictive lujvo, or even lujvo with their tertanru in the right place, is as little to be relied on as the dikyjvo he has repudiated. --- 'Dera me xhama t"e larm"e, T Nick Nicholas, CgS & CS, Melbourne Uni Dera mbas blerimit | nsn@munagin.ee.mu.oz.au (IRC: nicxjo) Me xhama t"e larm"e! | Milaw ki ellhnika/Esperanto parolata/ Lumtunia nuk ka ngjyra tjera.' | mi ka'e tavla bau la lojban. je'uru'e - Martin Camaj, _Nj"e Shp'i e Vetme_ | *d'oh!*