From LOJBAN%CUVMB.bitnet@YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU Sat Mar 6 22:44:38 2010 Received: from YALEVM.YCC.YALE.EDU by MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Wed, 9 Jun 1993 08:30:23 -0400 Received: from CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU by YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 5222; Wed, 09 Jun 93 02:25:59 EDT Received: from CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU by CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Mailer R2.07) with BSMTP id 0214; Wed, 09 Jun 93 02:27:23 EDT Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1993 02:25:12 EDT Reply-To: Logical Language Group Sender: Lojban list From: Logical Language Group Subject: impermissibles in names X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Erik Rauch X-Status: Status: OR X-From-Space-Date: Tue Jun 8 22:25:12 1993 X-From-Space-Address: @YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET Message-ID: I think Cowan answered Iain and Colin on this, but am not sure. So I'll give my own answer: >la kolin. cusku di'e >> .uu zoi gy. Bradford gy. > >> I just noticed I've been using a lojbanization of Bradford that is not >> only not a good rendering ("bradfyd" would be better) but is also >> invalid phonologically. > >> Henceforward, I will repair this by going to a really local >> pronunciation: > >> bratfyd > >cu'u mi >> > I'm curious to know what's phonologically invalid about >> > "*bradfrd". It doesn't break any rule I can remember coming >> > across. > >> "df" is not a permissible medial (voiced-unvoiced). > >So which is it, guys? >> >mi'e .i,n. The word resolution algorithm (and presumably Lojban speakers) will presume that names have only permissible medials. Thus, when they hear a voiced/unvoiced combination in a name, they will probably presume sloppy pronunciation and hear it either as 'bratfrd' or 'bradvrd', depending on whether voicing or devoicing predominates in the speakers' accent, or perhaps in the listeners native speech (Russian, for example, presumes devoicing in such situations). (This presumes they don't already know what the Lojbanized name refers to). It would be legal using the local pronunciation (bratfyd), or if that is too unrecognizable, use a 'y' as a cluster legalizing 'buffer': bratyfrd/bratyford. lojbab